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Re: [rockclimbing-62] September Dues

From: Jim M
Sent on: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:34 PM
Hi Lou,
I'm sorry that you have such an issue with the way the group is being run.
 I am not going to debate you on things.  Anyone that has climbed with me
or has taken any class I have taught has seen, and agreed with how
everything is set up.  Anything less and I would not feel comfortable
letting people climb. And if you would like, I can send you the link to
RIE and Hudson trail where I bought the gear to price yourself.  I don't
mislead anyone.  Never have and never will.  I will not buy cheap bargin
equipment and let people climb on it.  That leaves a huge liability.  Most
things that are sold at gear express are barin equipment. 

Also we have had over fifty different people climbing this summer, and on
the average weekend, we have six to ten people climbing on the equipment.
It wears out much faster that way.

I have tried to do my best with everyone and I realize I can't please all,
but most people seem to be very happy in the group.

I sent out an email linking to the message board explaining that the fees
are for the cost of the meetup site, which the organizer pays to meetup,
the networking, and use of all gear.  


Anyone that is going to spend this much time compaining about $30 a year,
probably isn't the quality of person we want climbing in the group.  

I have run over 40 meetup events since May.  And i have personally
attended, and setup, and met everyone at more than half of them. The fact
that your insulting me, and all the hours I have put into this really
insults me.  

At least ten people talked with me before we inacted the monthly
membership fee.  Everyone was for it.  Maybe you should have spoken up
when the group had open discussion.

Anyone that has a problem with our policies can feel free to climb with
other people.  

Have a great day

--- Lou <[address removed]> wrote:

I am a climber and mountaineer with over 3 decades of experience inalpine,
waterfall, and trad climbing in various places all over theworld. I took a
look at your spreadsheet. Let me point out a fewthings. First of all, if
you expect anyone to believe that you'repaying over $700 for a toprope
setup you need to get a grip. Take alook here: http://www.gearex...­
or here: http://www.barrab...­ here: http://www.mounta...­. By
buying your equipmentin only one of these spots you can cut what you pay
for the equipmentyou've listed by about 40% of what you claim to be
paying. If you shoparound you can get a decent toprope setup for about
$250. C'mon, myfull alpine rack, with cams, biners, nuts, pins, screws,
slings anddraws, and all the other stuff, plus ice tools, and a single dry
ropeonly cost a few hundred more than what you say you pay for a
topropeanchor. Get real.  By the way, what in the world are you going to
dowith 13 locking carabiners of various shapes? That's just ridiculous.
Atoprope with a slingshot belay takes two lockers. Three if
you'reparanoid. I just checked their website and REI sells a large,
BlackDiamond, HMS style keynose locking carabiner for $9.95 - regular
price,not on sale. Why pay twice as much? Please explain to us why
anyonetoproping needs 2 cordelettes (which cost $8.95 each btw, not
$15.00),70 feet of 1" webbing runners (why are you paying 50 cents a foot
forthis), AND 110 feet of static rope? That's one hell of atoprope anchor,
there. What are you going to do? Put a runner around anentire mountain?
Equalize 8 or 10 placements? Or are you setting up atrad rack and these
are your runners and cordelettes? Rope protectors?$50 OF ROPE PROTECTORS!
Fer crissakes, go to the firehouse and ask themto give you one of their
old hoses that they're going to throw away.Oh, and $125 buys a really nice
technical backpack if you shop thesales. Exactly how far do you plan to
hump all this extra stuff anyway?

Now look. Nobody who is even slightly knowledgeable about this is goingto
give you any money  if you make such outrageous claims. Why don'tyou try
telling the truth? I don't think that most people are awarethat organizers
are charged a fee for the groups. I certainly wasn't.You should let them
know. What's the fee, $19 a month or something likethat? I think everyone
would agree that the members should pay that,not the organizers. You guys
do the work of running the group andshouldn't have to pay for it. In fact,
as soon as I'm done with thisI'm going to suggest to all the organizers of
the other groups Ifrequent that they should let their members know about
the fee they'recharged. If you're going to charge people something for
instructingthem be up front about it. They'll pay you. Climbing
instructors andguides get paid all the time. If the group is going to
purchaseequipment for group use that's cool and the group should pay for
it.You should try to economize and get the best value you can for
theirmoney.  Just stop trying to tell me your toprope anchor costs
$700unless it needs to be extended far from the rock in which case it
costsmore. That's absurd. {$50 for rope protectors!!! Sheesh!!}


Jim wrote:Please remember to get in your membership dues soon.Easiest way
is to use paypal. If not you can give them to one of theorgainizers at a
meetup event and then email Jim who you gave yourmoney too. Paying for a
few months at a time is encouraged.
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Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Lou ([address removed]) from The VA/MD/DC Rock
Climber's Meetup Group.
To learn more about Lou, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here Customer Service: [address removed] 
	632 Broadway New York NY 10012 USA

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