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Re: [rockclimbing-62] September Dues

From: user 3.
Sent on: Friday, September 14, 2007 12:45 PM
Can I make one suggestion - If the fees are for equiptment that is used when outdoor climbing - can a fee per event be charged at outdoor climbs - therefore covering the cost of equipment for the outdoor climbs - that way those that don't get to events very often are not paying for the ones that go weekly.
 
Just another way to look at it
Thanks Brenda

Jim <[address removed]> wrote:
Hi Dave,
Ok, at this point I am starting to get annoyed with people. Its a simple
concept, why Should I spend the monthly meetup fee so that people can use
meetup like myspace or facebook. If you want a free internet chat
vehicle, go join myspace. This group is for climbing. We use equipment.
We are trying to grow the group and get more equipment so that we can have
larger events on the weekends.

All of the true climbers, and true group members have been fine and happy
with the decision. Anyone not happy doesnt have to attend this meetups
functions. I am tired of being insulted by saying I am trying to run a
business when everything I have done so far for this group has been on my
own dime.

Its simple at this point. Three dollars is almost nothing to one
individual, but throughout the group it will let us expand, grow and do
more functions. If you dont agree with the monthly fee, then you dont
have to participate. I dont think you will like the alternative when i say
that everyone must buy all their own equipment to try outdoor climbing
because out of the 50 or so people that have come outdoors with us this
summer, only about 4 had their own gear.

People need to get a grip and realize that climbing is a dangerous sport
and needs proper gear. This group will not skimp, and will not sacrifice
with a poor setup to save money.

Best wishes
Jim


--- Dave <[address removed]>wrote:

> Jim:
>
> I hate flaming anyone or addressing this but since I did reply I
> would like to say only that I think the meetup is a great place for
> people to meet and do things they enjoy doing. I do not think it was
> originally intended as a vehicle for people to launch their own
> business in the guise of getting together and having fun. That said,
> there are many meetups now that people are making money running
> charging fees above and beyond the airfare or getting referral fees
> from the businesses they negotiate with for the sake of their members.
>
> Another gentleman said that the fee you were asking is less then a
> cup of coffee. That may be true, but it is not the issue for me as to
> how much one charges to be a member of the group but rather that they
> charge at all. I think Lou said that you should charge for the
> classes you provide and I would agree with that and have seen you do
> so for your events. I would continue to be a member of the group if
> nothing more then the networking of other like minded people who also
> enjoy climbing. The fee goes against the original intent of meetup
> which was to bring people together. No matter how small, this fee
> could prevent someone from joining. I know most of you think this is
> ridiculous but I know it to be true. I also think it goes against the
> idea of the Internet being a place where people can meet, gain
> knowledge or entertainment, or simply waste a few minutes of time.
>
> I have my own group which I organize "The Herndon Gung Ho Group"
> which I created more for the experiment then anything else - to see
> it grow - who joins - etc. There are no fees for my members as
> everything I do is free with the exception of any parking or park
> access fees or activity fees which people pay directly to the
> organization collecting the money. This is my choice to not charge a
> membership fee as for me, the $45 for three months does not impact
> me. I would say that since you are using meetup as a business venture
> it would be in your best interest to charge for those events you are
> providing your expertise, knowledge and equipment but should not
> charge for simply being a member. People looking at different things
> to do will be less likely to join your group as they are looking at
> all of the other groups that are free and being unfamiliar with you,
> what you offer, and the costs related to your business.
>
> My group has over 60 members and is growing. Those people look at the
> profiles of others and join groups based on their memberships. It's
> something to keep in mind...
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 13, 2007, at 11:34 PM, Jim wrote:
>
> > Hi Lou,
> > I'm sorry that you have such an issue with the way the group is
> > being run.
> > I am not going to debate you on things. Anyone that has climbed
> > with me
> > or has taken any class I have taught has seen, and agreed with how
> > everything is set up. Anything less and I would not feel comfortable
> > letting people climb. And if you would like, I can send you the
> > link to
> > RIE and Hudson trail where I bought the gear to price yourself. I
> > don't
> > mislead anyone. Never have and never will. I will not buy cheap
> > bargin
> > equipment and let people climb on it. That leaves a huge
> > liability. Most
> > things that are sold at gear express are barin equipment.
> >
> > Also we have had over fifty different people climbing this summer,
> > and on
> > the average weekend, we have six to ten people climbing on the
> > equipment.
> > It wears out much faster that way.
> >
> > I have tried to do my best with everyone and I realize I can't
> > please all,
> > but most people seem to be very happy in the group.
> >
> > I sent out an email linking to the message board explaining that
> > the fees
> > are for the cost of the meetup site, which the organizer pays to
> > meetup,
> > the networking, and use of all gear.
> >
> > ALL MONEY WE EARN GOES TOWARD REPLACING GEAR THE GROUP USES.
> >
> > Anyone that is going to spend this much time compaining about $30 a
> > year,
> > probably isn't the quality of person we want climbing in the group.
> >
> > I have run over 40 meetup events since May. And i have personally
> > attended, and setup, and met everyone at more than half of them.
> > The fact
> > that your insulting me, and all the hours I have put into this really
> > insults me.
> >
> > At least ten people talked with me before we inacted the monthly
> > membership fee. Everyone was for it. Maybe you should have spoken up
> > when the group had open discussion.
> >
> > Anyone that has a problem with our policies can feel free to climb
> > with
> > other people.
> >
> > Have a great day
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > --- Lou <[address removed]>wrote:
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > I am a climber and mountaineer with over 3 decades of experience
> > inalpine,
> > waterfall, and trad climbing in various places all over theworld. I
> > took a
> > look at your spreadsheet. Let me point out a fewthings. First of
> > all, if
> > you expect anyone to believe that you'repaying over $700 for a toprope
> > setup you need to get a grip. Take alook here: http://
> > www.gearexpress.biz/
> > or here: http://www.barrabes.comor here: http://
> > www.mountaingear.com. By
> > buying your equipmentin only one of these spots you can cut what
> > you pay
> > for the equipmentyou've listed by about 40% of what you claim to be
> > paying. If you shoparound you can get a decent toprope setup for about
> > $250. C'mon, myfull alpine rack, with cams, biners, nuts, pins,
> > screws,
> > slings anddraws, and all the other stuff, plus ice tools, and a
> > single dry
> > ropeonly cost a few hundred more than what you say you pay for a
> > topropeanchor. Get real. By the way, what in the world are you
> > going to
> > dowith 13 locking carabiners of various shapes? That's just
> > ridiculous.
> > Atoprope with a slingshot belay takes two lockers. Three if
> > you'reparanoid. I just checked their website and REI sells a large,
> > BlackDiamond, HMS style keynose locking carabiner for $9.95 - regular
> > price,not on sale. Why pay twice as much? Please explain to us why
> > anyonetoproping needs 2 cordelettes (which cost $8.95 each btw, not
> > $15.00),70 feet of 1" webbing runners (why are you paying 50 cents
> > a foot
> > forthis), AND 110 feet of static rope? That's one hell of atoprope
> > anchor,
> > there. What are you going to do? Put a runner around anentire
> > mountain?
> > Equalize 8 or 10 placements? Or are you setting up atrad rack and
> > these
> > are your runners and cordelettes? Rope protectors?$50 OF ROPE
> > PROTECTORS!
> > Fer crissakes, go to the firehouse and ask themto give you one of
> > their
> > old hoses that they're going to throw away.Oh, and $125 buys a
> > really nice
> > technical backpack if you shop thesales. Exactly how far do you
> > plan to
> > hump all this extra stuff anyway?
> >
> > Now look. Nobody who is even slightly knowledgeable about this is
> > goingto
> > give you any money if you make such outrageous claims. Why
> > don'tyou try
> > telling the truth? I don't think that most people are awarethat
> > organizers
> > are charged a fee for the groups. I certainly wasn't.You should let
> > them
> > know. What's the fee, $19 a month or something likethat? I think
> > everyone
> > would agree that the members should pay that,not the organizers.
> > You guys
> > do the work of running the group andshouldn't have to pay for it.
> > In fact,
> > as soon as I'm done with thisI'm going to suggest to all the
> > organizers of
> > the other groups Ifrequent that they should let their members know
> > about
> > the fee they'recharged. If you're going to charge people something for
> > instructingthem be up front about it. They'll pay you. Climbing
> > instructors andguides get paid all the time. If the group is going to
> > purchaseequipment for group use that's cool and the group should
> > pay for
> > it.You should try to economize and get the best value you can for
> > theirmoney. Just stop trying to tell me your toprope anchor costs
> > $700unless it needs to be extended far from the rock in which case it
> > costsmore. That's absurd. {$50 for rope protectors!!! Sheesh!!}
> >
> > Lou
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim wrote:Please remember to get in your membership dues
> > soon.Easiest way
> > is to use paypal. If not you can give them to one of theorgainizers
> > at a
> > meetup event and then email Jim who you gave yourmoney too. Paying
> > for a
> > few months at a time is encouraged.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> > this mailing list ([address removed])
> > This message was sent by Jim ([address removed]) from The VA/MD/DC
> > RockClimber's Meetup Group.
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> >
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