lol and it's not even winter yet. go climb a rock.
From: [address removed]
To: [address removed]
Subject: RE: [rockclimbing-80] Authoritarian Twin Ropes deletion
Date: Tue, 5 Oct[masked]:05:08 -0400
1) I agree that discussion should have taken place before any removals were undertaken, and would've been interested in seeing Kristi's participation in that discussion.
2) The Terms of Service specifically release Meetup from any legal issue arising from the use of the platform (Section 6.2), so the legal argument appears to be unfounded.
3) I see value in discourse, and feel that our members have sufficient access to a variety of information sources and training options that allow them to make informed choices. I believe censorship in public forums is generally neither beneficial nor benevolent.
> From: [address removed]
> To: [address removed]
> Subject: Re: [rockclimbing-80] Authoritarian Twin Ropes deletion
> Date: Tue, 5 Oct[masked]:07:28 -0400
> Perhaps it would have been better to set up a yahoo or gmail groups
> forum and transfer the info before deleting it. That way, meetup is
> not in any legal danger and people who find value in it can continue
> to use it.
> That said, Dru has some good points and I would have liked to hear
> Kristi's view if she is the chief:). This group has always been about
> options. The argument for removing it has valid points, but there are
> different ways of handling it that may not have caused so much
> Take care all, and climb on!
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 2, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Dru Whitledge <[address removed]> wrote:
> > Perhaps worthy of discussion --
> > Chris's justification for deleting the Twin / Double ropes
> > discussion and my response below.
> > What do you think?
> > Dru,
> > I removed the Twin / Double ropes discussion for several reasons:
> > 1)
> > The administrators of the site have agreed that this forum and this
> > Meetup group is a venue for logistics and gathering. We want this to
> > be a place that facilitates climbing events and discussion
> > surrounding getting together, places to climb, etc...We do not want
> > this to be a venue for sorting out technical or skills related
> > information between members. This can be a slippery slope for may
> > different reasons, legal being one of them. Also there are so many
> > opinions out there, many of them misleading and wrong, that we do
> > not want this to turn into a flaming session or venue for arguments
> > and disagreements.
> > 2)
> > As owners of a private Meetup site we would like to reserve the
> > right to post Technical information if we believe it is in the best
> > interests of the membership or the climbing community at large.
> > However, we still believe that this is not the best venue for those
> > types of issues.
> > 3)
> > This particular discussion was about to turn into a mismash of
> > inaccurate information and I wished to end it before it got worse.
> > 4)
> > If you or anyone else is interested in learning about the use of
> > multiple rope systems I would be happy to discuss it offline. Or I
> > can point anyone in the direction of very qualified mountain guides
> > for further instruction.
> > Climb On.
> > Chris
> > Hey Chris,
> > That's sad to hear -- that you unilaterally, preemptively deleted
> > the Twin / Double Ropes discussion and sadder still to hear the tone
> > in which you justify it.
> > It seems an overly authoritarian tone to me and pretty damn
> > presumptive of your superiority relative to the many other
> > knowledgeable and experienced members offering to share that
> > knowledge with the group without charge. I find it disturbing that
> > you would not at least feel the need for the COURTESY to offer an
> > explanation before deleting an active discussion.
> > I don't recall any discussion open to the group setting policy that
> > we had to filter all technical discussion through you or anyone else
> > -- or setting group policy of any type.
> > You are right this is a private group -- Kristi's private group --
> > She pays the bills and she calls the shots. However, if you've been
> > around awhile you're aware that she inherited the group from Eckard
> > and Stan and others before them and it has a long history -- a
> > relatively democratic, egalitarian history -- not an autocratic
> > history and no history of having been run as a private enterprise.
> > If she's appointed you as the Grand Pohba to dictatorially run the
> > group, she hasn't told us.
> > If you're promulgating policy, unilateral authoritarian policy,
> > especially you one need to first advance that it's Kristi's policy
> > and not just yours and do so transparently for the acceptance or
> > rejection of the members. That would include a transparent
> > discussion of justifications for policy, particularly policy
> > predicated presumably on legal grounds -- I would imagine there are
> > likely several lawyers in the group who -- who would like to
> > contribute to the that OPEN transparent discussion. Then it's
> > Kristi's call or such other person who might have legal standing.
> > I found the deleted Twin ropes discussion mildly informative, but
> > didn't see it as an instruction manual for anything and doubt that
> > anyone else did. Parts of it were clearly contradictory -- which
> > everyone could see and evaluate for themselves. If you felt you had
> > a superior knowledge why not offer it to the discussion? It also
> > seemed a relatively polite discussion while voicing opposing view
> > points -- a rarity on the web, which I thought encouraging -- and
> > with a few past exceptions generally the rule for this group.
> > Dru
> > --
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> > http://www.meetup.com/rockclimbing-80/
> > This message was sent by Dru Whitledge ([address removed]) from Rock
> > and Soul Climbers.
> > To learn more about Dru Whitledge, visit his/her member profile: http://www.meetup.com/rockclimbing-80/members/2391280/
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