Re: [ronpaul-1358] Re: [lpct-activists] Feedback on chart

From: shelly o.
Sent on: Friday, January 4, 2013 11:13 PM
Hey guys i agree im an anit-federalist too, im for very small government, and pro-constitution. I believe the states need states rights.get involved in the local level. right now we are about to be controlled by marxist communism.It was predicted in Fatima, Portugal, whether you belive it or not! Its reality.goodnight. when is our meeetings? Sheila
 

From: shelly o'meara <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, January 4,[masked]:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-1358] Re: [lpct-activists] Feedback on chart
H i this is shelly. when and where are we all m eeting. Im lost! i live in New britain? when is the next meet up? thank you.Godbless! take care. shelly.

From: Gary Barnes <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, January 4, [masked]:40 PM
Subject: RE: [ronpaul-1358] Re: [lpct-activists] Feedback on chart
I must be on the wrong thread. I thought this was a Libertarian meetup with the ronpaul label. Btw I have read the anti-federalist papers extensively as well as the federalist papers and all the transcripts from the Constitutional convention.
 
You can claim what you want. I’ve read the history.  The States were very protective of their sovereignty, their independent Countries. They formed governments within those States. The people of the States were bound to their governments, like it or not. If you didn’t, you moved somewhere else.  The anti-federalists were against National central government and wanted the Confederation that was in place to continue with some sound policy to work together on foreign affairs as independent States.
 
I will yield to whatever response you have in the can ready to go to shoot down any semblance of reality. I find many of these discussions to be totally counter productive.  You don’t have to agree with anything presented and you can live with the government we have now.  It seems whenever someone tries to even attempt to make things better, they are slapped down for their efforts. I notice it happens a lot on these threads.
 
I offer my other cheek to the pointless argument.
 
Meanwhile for those interested in trying to improve our standing, lets’ work together.
 
 
From: [address removed] [mailto: [address removed] ] On Behalf Of shemdogg
Sent: Friday, January 04,[masked]:08 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-1358] Re: [lpct-activists] Feedback on chart
 
no gary why don't you re read the anti federalists papers

they talk about how out of control a central government get.  they necessarily talk about how large government needs to be

my response was not isolationist.  it was voluntary trade with everyone.  a constitutionalist would say i have to live my life by a contract that (he and i) never signed.  a constitutionalist would argue congress, a group of individuals who i've never met can violate my god-given property rights by stealing the fruits of my labor.  that during times of war soldiers can be quartered at my home whether i like it or not.    a constitutional would argue that "reasonable" (as defined by him or congress or some other invidual i've never met) searches of person are acceptable.  even the in the 10th amendment a constitutionalist delegates powers to states (groups of other individuals who i've never met, never contracted with, and don't consent to obey)

don't call me an interventionist when your system, even if operating within it's written limits, is using force against people for your greater good
 
 
From: Gary Barnes < [address removed] >
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, January 4,[masked]:56 PM
Subject: RE: [ronpaul-1358] Re: [lpct-activists] Feedback on chart
 
The anti-federalists believed in government at the State and local levels, keeping government close to the people.  Your response is that of an isolationist, not an anti-federalist.
 
 
From: [address removed] [mailto: [address removed] ] On Behalf Of shemdogg
Sent: Friday, January 04,[masked]:59 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-1358] Re: [lpct-activists] Feedback on chart
 
that's just my point.  we the people taking our government back is collectivist talk.  i don't want to be governed by anyone other than myself.  i want to be free.  i am an antifederalist and very few of those things apply to me
 
 
From: Gary Barnes < [address removed] >
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, January 4,[masked]:14 PM
Subject: RE: [ronpaul-1358] Re: [lpct-activists] Feedback on chart
 
I agree with you.  The list comprises more of a contrast than actual applications, though many issues can be viewed positively. I have also brought the Anti-Federalist view (or what may be interpreted) up to the current timeline in an attempt to project a current and future possibility for the people to take back their government.
 
From: [address removed] [mailto: [address removed] ] On Behalf Of shemdogg
Sent: Friday, January 04,[masked]:45 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-1358] Re: [lpct-activists] Feedback on chart
 
Some anti federalists thought even a republic was too much government
 
They would have opposed quite a few of the issues you have their 
 
 
 
 


On Jan 4, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Robert <[address removed]> wrote:
The chart looks good, but I would not use the term "Federalist" to describe our current state.
The Federalism is not at all representative of our current system as is actually more descriptive of what you describe as "Anti-Federalist".
 
Remember, the term "Anti-Federalist" was thrust upon Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry, not because they were literally anti-Federalism, but because they were generally in opposition to the Federalist Party's support of the Constitution over the Articles of Confederation. Both sides espoused Federalist Principles, and ironically those labeled as "Anti-Federalist" were more strongly supportive of them in comparison to a centralized government. Our Constitution, particularly as amended by the Bill of Rights, creates a Federalist system.
 
Robbo
 
 
From: Gary Barnes <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]; [address removed]; [address removed]
Sent: Fri, January 4,[masked]:20:49 PM
Subject: [lpct-activists] Feedback on chart
I was wondering if I could get some feedback on this spreadsheet. We’re making presentations this year to several groups disillusioned by our current Federal Government.  While we don’t have everything listed, we want to give the clearest picture (and contrast) as possible to reach the widest audience.  We know technically the Government considers itself a Republic restricted by the Constitution. This comparison is about what we believe is really happening.  This is not a fix all solution as many here have pet issues they want to see resolved.  It is rather a window into a possible future Federal Government more in line with the Anti-Federalist positions in the past and what they might look like in the present. 
 
Thank you all in advance for your time.
 
Gary
 
The Anti-Federalists - 2013
Federalists - Our Current Government - The Two Party System
 
 
The People are the Government
The Politicians are the Government
Term limits for Representatives
Career Politicians
Confederation of Countries (States)
Centralized Nation State (Forced Union )
Republic and the Rule of Law.
Democracy used as an Oligarchy – Elitist Rule.
Senators Appointed by States
Senators Democratically Elected. Majority Rules
Representative Government
Party Ideologue Government of Elitists
A non-Party Government for ALL the People
Two Party System meant to Divide and Enslave
All Americans are Created Equal
Class Warfare, Inequality. Creating Partisanship
Minority Ideologies are Protected
Majority Ideology Rules. Minority enslaved.
Extremely Limited Constitutional Government
Constitutional Government Interpreted 10,000 ways
Small Federal Government
Bloated Federal Government
Government Departments run Cost Effectively
Departments Mismanaged and Overspending
Elimination of Czars
Czars using Power for Ideological Purposes
Government for Foreign Affairs
Government for Everything
State’s Rights
Limited States Rights (virtually no State’s Rights)
Limited Federal Government
Unlimited Federal Government
Decentralized Government Close to the People
Centralized Government Away from the People
State’s run Domestic Affairs
Federal Government runs Domestic affairs
Patriotic to State and Country
Patriotic to Dystopian Nation State
Protection of Personal Property
Confiscation of Personal Property
Responsible Immigration Policy
Broken and unenforceable Immigration Policy
Eliminating Foreign Aid
Funding Countries that hate America
No United Nations. Coalition with Friendly Countries
Bowing to United Nations
End all Wars. Bring Troops Home
Troop Stationed Everywhere
Smaller more effective National Defense
Bloated Pentagon sending 1000s to Die, 10s of 1000s Hurt
Protect the States and the People
Policing the World
Espouse the Republic form of Government
Forcing Democracy on the World
No Taxation without Representation
Taxation without TRUE Representation
The Right to Live as One chooses
Forced to Live as Others choose
Enjoy the Fruits of One’s labor
Fruits taken and Redistributed
Pursue the American Dream
Punished attaining the American Dream (Progressive Tax)
Donating through Individual’s choice
Government Cronyism through Redistribution
No Lobbyists
Lobbyists
Open Market Capitalism
Crony Capitalism, Special Interest Groups
Fair Market Banking, No Central Bank, Specie Based
Fractional Banking by Cartel (FED). Paper Money
Limited Regulations
Nearly Unlimited Regulations
Stipends for Representation (No Benefits)
Politicians set own Salaries, Benefits, Health care
Part time Representation
Full time Career Politician
Choice in Government Programs
Forced to belong to Government Programs
Private Health Care options
Forced to have care - forced Government Programs
Balanced Budgets annually
No Budgets – Unlimited Spending
Fiscal Responsibility
Fiscal Irresponsibility and Deficit Spending
Responsible Crisis borrowing with Short Term Payback
Irresponsible "Crisis" borrowing and unable to payback
Energy Independence
Forced Green Energy Solutions
Ending Subsidies to all sectors
Paying Subsidies to favorites and friends
People’s Right of Self-Defense, Gun Ownership
Police State, Dystopian Society
Judges voted to Office
Judges picked by Political Ideology for life
Secession and Nullification, State Competition
Forced to stay in Union and obey Federal edicts
No Taxation by Federal Government
Forced Taxation by Federal Government
Funded by Imports and non-Income Solutions
Forced Taxation
No Corporate Taxation. Keep Jobs in America
2nd Highest in World. Forcing Jobs to go Overseas
No Centralized Internal Improvements
Centralized Internal Improvements
No Pork Spending
Pork Spending to get Politicians re-elected
Limited Crisis Welfare, Self Responsibility
Unlimited Welfare, Dependency for Political re-election
Job Training for Poor (Private Training Schools)
Failed Public Training Programs
Protection of all Senior Programs (50 and above)
Bankrupting Programs, Stealing Money from Social Security
Government Time Limited Emergency Safety Net
Government Bloated unlimited Welfare State
Welfare - Ending Poverty through Private Sector
Welfare - Keeping the Poor…Poor
Help less fortunate (Private Donations/Programs)
Buying Votes through Entitlements for Poor
 
 
 
Gary W Barnes
[address removed]
 
 




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