Re: [ronpaul-93] Re: My advice to the undecided... be self-interested.

From: user 6.
Sent on: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 2:19 PM
Heard the other day that california will honor Ron Paul write ins...

From: Leigh Skinner <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12,[masked]:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] Re: My advice to the undecided... be self-interested.

Mert,
 
As one who has volunteered with the Minute Men over the years, I don't see much wrong with Johnson's approach.  He understands that the main reason illegal immigrants come here is the huge backlog in temporary work visas.  Our government would rather put their resources to other things than protecting our borders.  This is true under both parties. 
 
I prefer someone like Johnson being frank than Romney's "promises" that won't come true.  Johnson doesn't address control of the border specifically, as he is interested in solving the causes instead of putting a bandage, so to speak, on the issue by building a fence or putting troops on the border.  Both will not alone solve the problem any more than a wall and guards around East Berlin kept people from trying to escape.  What can fence people from coming in here can also fence Americans in from leaving. 
 
By the way, Ron Paul has suggested the same measures as Johnson does, except Paul has added putting troops on the border, but not building a fence.  So their stances on border security are quite similar, and you'll need to write Johnson and ask him what he thinks about the troops idea.  I understand he reads his own email.
 
Leigh

Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. Frederic Bastiat



From: Mert Erel <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Wed, September 12,[masked]:24:54 AM
Subject: RE: [ronpaul-93] Re: My advice to the undecided... be self-interested.

Gary Johnson pretty much has an open borders policy. That is that main difference between Ron Paul and Gary Johnson.  At least if I vote the Romney ticket, I’m ensured tougher stances on illegal immigration.

http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/issues/immigration

Mert Erel
 
From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of James Reid
Sent: Tuesday, September 11,[masked]:29 AM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] Re: My advice to the undecided... be self-interested.
 
I am on the vote for Gary Johnson.
 
1. Romney has already committed to assist the bank bailout of Europe.  Romney has committed to increase defense contractor budget spending.  Refer to the Bloomberg debate Oct 11, 2011.  Romney proposed cabinet selections are very anti-liberty.
2. Obama is well Obama and his committed second term projects include Amnesty At All Cost, as well as a continued degradation of the US Economy and Civil Liberties.
 
California will vote Democratic by 2+ million anyways, Romney cannot win the 55 Electoral votes...so a Romney vote cannot swing CA no matter how much you dislike Obama.
 
Better to add to the Libertarian strength and visibility with a vote for Gary Johnson.
 
 
 
On Sep 10, 2012, at 1:23 PM, Leigh Skinner wrote:


Voting for someone not on the ballot, and not even an official write-in candidate, is a complete waste.  And its not even a protest vote because all that might be acknowledged is so many votes for "anonymous".  The write-in name will not be recorded unless its an official write-in.
 
We Ron Paul supporters need to get over it all.  While Dr. Paul hasn't endorsed Gary Johnson, he has made some complimentary remarks about him.  And Johnson did a good job as governor of New Mexico.  So if you're not voting for either of the two main candidates, why not vote for Johnson.  That would be a measurable protest vote, and who knows...
 
Leigh
 
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. Frederic Bastiat
 
 

From: i4freedom <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Mon, September 10,[masked]:09:36 AM
Subject: RE: [ronpaul-93] Re: My advice to the undecided... be self-interested.
Ron Paul will NOT be counted on the ballots unless his name is on the list of write-ins.
 

From: [address removed]
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] Re: My advice to the undecided... be self-interested.
Date: Fri, 7 Sep[masked]:29:30 -0400
I cannot seem to make up my mind as to the proper person to vote for. I put thousands of FRN into Ron Paul's campaign and hundreds of hours putting up signs, attending meetings, etc. that at this point, I think I am going to write in Ron Paul.I did all this work so that I could vote for Ron Paul, so I am going to see it through. That way when I get up in the morning and face myself, I can say "I tried". Also when the Republigoons  and Demonstercrats talk excuses why their idiot in the D.C. Brothel promised this or that but needs just "four more wars" I can laugh in their faces. I'll try again next election.
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Bill Bennett <[address removed]> wrote:
Mike and Friends,
 
Just got this from AZ, Who is next?
 
Just posted to the 2012 Election Discussion Group:
The Arizona Supreme Court will allow the "Top Two" on to the ballot.  We really have our work cut out to inform our friends, neighbors, coworkers, family and anyone who will listen that this is a total affront to the Constitution and our republic form of government. 
In liberty,  Bill
 
From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Sheri Snow Powers
Sent: Friday, September 07,[masked]:30 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: [ronpaul-93] Re: My advice to the undecided... be self-interested.
 
Despite the increase of executive power over the past 4 years, the President does not yet have unleashed power and I don't believe that he could get unleashed power in 4 more years even if revolution and civil discourse were to erupt. I believe this because of the widespread reach of the internet and info disseminated on a daily basis. Further, the counter-terrorism provision of the NDAA was just deemed "unconstitutional" in May (and yes, I know that the executive branch is appealing). We are still influencing our Congress and Senate (example: the defeat of SOPA and the victory of Audit the Fed) And more and more of the American people are waking everyday....For these reasons, I strongly believe a vote for BO or MR will not serve the self-interested.  A 3rd party, write-in or abstaining vote is most valuable to "quantify the movement."  Because it would behoove us "self-interested" to be "collective" just this once in order to make the biggest impact, I am all for a "collective' decision on how to vote (3rd party, Write-in or Abstain) but we need someone (RP?) to lead us to that decision and unfortunately, I don't see that happening.  Thus, I am leaning GJ right now.  See this article written in the Daily Paul:
 
Quantify the Movement: The Case for Gary Johnson
Written by a Massachusetts Delegate
The Liberty Movement has a tremendous amount of momentum, and with the convention behind us we must set our sights on November and the next four years. We have made great strides in winning offices at the grass-roots level and must continue to do so if we are to affect change, but there is one thing we have not yet been able to accomplish, and that is to show the world exactly how big our movement can be in a general election. We all know there are droves of Ron Paul and Liberty-minded supporters who did not cast votes in primaries either because they are Democrats, Independents, or only interested in participating in a general election. By all casting votes for Gary Johnson we can in the course of just one day show the world how strong we truly are. I call this "Quantifying the Movement" and venture to list several rationales for a Johnson vote below.
The Case for the Republican Party: Often times, out of love, children must be disciplined to help shape them into better people. So is the case with political parties. It is no secret the Republican Party has gone out of their way, even breaking their own rules, to kick the sand in the face of the Liberty Movement. It is true we must transform the party from within in order to change this, but we must also show in no uncertain terms that the Republican Party needs to want and accept this change if it is to maintain and grow the support of such a critical wing of the party. The two agendas are mutually beneficial, not mutually exclusive.
The Case for Rand Paul: If Mitt Romney loses the election "because of Gary Johnson," how powerful would it be for Rand Paul to be able to approach the Republican Party with a quantifiable number of how many voters he could potentially bring back to the party if he were to become the next nominee? Some would argue that Liberty supporters voting against the party would hurt Rand Paul's chances – in truth it only makes them stronger.
The Case of Conscience: For too long have people been subscribing to the notion they must vote for the lesser of two evils. We are at a point in American history where 40% of the population does not identify as either a Democrat or a Republican. This presents an incredible opportunity to show the two parties that the system must evolve in order to survive.
The Case for the Message: A large voter turnout for Gary Johnson and Libertarian beliefs will force the general public to at the very lease ask why, and asking this important question is the first step towards discovering what the Liberty Message actually is.
In the following sections, I would like to offer several alternatives to the Johnson vote and why they are not as supportive of the Liberty Movement.
The No-Vote: Not voting is the weakest form of protest vote an individual can ever perform, simply because it is a protest that will never be heard. Staying home and not voting is quite possibly the worst thing a supporter of the Liberty Movement can do on Election Day.
The Write-In: The unfortunate truth of the matter is that write-ins simply are not counted. The candidate has to make themselves eligible as a write-in in most states and therefore a write-in is the practical equivalent of a no-vote. Gary Johnson will be on the ballot in all 50 states, guaranteeing that those votes for the Liberty Movement have the highest likelihood of being counted.
The Other Third Parties: The other third parties will most likely not be on the ballot in all 50 states. Therefore, not all of the Liberty Movement will be able to cast a unified vote at the national level.
The Romney Vote: The proper way to affect change within the Republican Party is to get and stay organized at the local and grass-roots level. Members of the Liberty Movement must get themselves elected into positions from school boards and town committees all the way up to the Senate. However, thinking change will come by voting for a man who has repeatedly shunned the Liberty Movement is unrealistic and effectively gives permission to the Republican Party to continue business as usual.
The Obama Vote: Many Liberty supporters were once Obama supporters, but it is clear that he has failed in his promise to end wars and promote Liberty. In fact, he has done the exact opposite by creating more wars and passing legislation that erodes personal liberties. The Liberty Movement cannot endorse this and still call itself a Liberty Movement.
Finally, those who take issue with Gary Johnson’s position on abortion must keep in mind that although Ron Paul and Gary Johnson’s personal opinions on abortion differ, their actual policy opinions are not all that different. Both believe that legislation should happen at the state level and not in the courts.
Whatever you do in November, do it at the polls and feel good about the vote you place in the box. We are in a unique position as a movement to parlay great momentum into a very loud and clear message to the Republican Party and the Nation as a whole that the Liberty Movement is alive, well, and indeed the future. Let's show the world what the Liberty Movement means numerically in a General Election so that we may grow in strength and continue to right the path of These United States.
 




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