Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural vitamin B6 but allows GMO's & fluoridation

From: Mike B.
Sent on: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 4:53 PM
So Leigh, you are not in favor of a free market?
Does this prop increase or decrease the size of government?
Are you saying if I grow tomatoes in my garden that I may sell them 
all the while being exempt from these new regs?
Who will enforce these new regs?
Is the prop being promoted under the guise of freedom or security?
Are GMO products legal?
Do you want products that are GMO produced to be labeled "potentially 
harmful to your health"
Do you think that after the labeling you can sue for bad effects from 
a legal product?

Mike



At 02:10 PM 10/3/2012, you wrote:
>Mike,
>
>There is a provision in the intitiative for accidental 
>contamination.  Most if not all of crops, including organic, have 
>some GMO's, we know that.  But there are crops grown only as GMO's, 
>and that is what this initiative is trying to address.  Home gardens 
>are not the target of this proposition, and you are simply using 
>scare tactics to suggest this will happen.  I believe when consumers 
>start reading these labels, GMO's will lose traction in a very short 
>period of time.
>
>As for restaurants, just like I check to see if MSG is being used, I 
>would ask the manager about GMO's, too.  I believe they will be more 
>careful about where they get their supplies from as time moves 
>on.  And I don't expect the government to enforce it, but as I 
>explained earlier, it will give me the right to legally address the 
>issue in court.  Right now if one tries to sue over GMO's or 
>fluoridation, the courts throw these actions out.
>
>As for murder and robbery, the laws against them are mandating 
>punishment if you murder someone or if you steal from someone.  It 
>may be a different sort of mandate, but some in this group are 
>saying all mandates are wrong, that they force people. There isn't 
>room for morality in that.   I'm just pointing out that being 
>literal about this can be silly.  There are anarchists who don't 
>want any authority by dissolving all governments.  Now that is 
>really foolish!  I know you don't agree with that, Mike, because you 
>debated this issue some years ago.
>
>Leigh
>It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, 
>tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the 
>minds of men. Samuel Adams
>Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to 
>live at the expense of everybody else. Frederic Bastiat
>
>
>
>From: Mike Benoit <[address removed]>
>To: [address removed]
>Sent: Wed, October 3,[masked]:50:22 AM
>Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural vitamin B6 but allows 
>GMO's & fluoridation
>
>"What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the 
>individual right to lawful defense" Laws are bad when they are a 
>perversion of the definition above. We have a right to defend our 
>rights with deadly force if need be and that right can be delegated 
>as a power to government for the common application of this 
>responsive force. Laws against murder, robbery, and rape are 
>defensive in nature (they. They are not mandates (forcing people to 
>do something). Forcing people or companies to label their products 
>are a perversion, of law. You don't protect rights by violating 
>rights. You have the right to buy or not buy any product that is out 
>there. By claiming that people can force other people to do things 
>against their will is a support for tyranny. What is tyranny? It is 
>the taking control of something without the right to do so.
>
>We can delegate to government only that which we have a right to do ourselves.
>
>Now since some people are ready to take away liberty and property 
>rights from other people I only hope they realize their own 
>inconsistency and do not complain when others do it to them.
>
>Of course we know that when you give up liberty for security you end 
>up with neither. Laws like this hurt the little guys and justify 
>government making it illegal to sell from your own garden. After all 
>you don't have the label on. Special interest groups get waivers. 
>Sometimes seed can travel in the wind and land on a farm where the 
>farmer only planted heirloom seed yet some GMO seed made its way 
>into his farm. So the products he produces and you eat have some gmo 
>by accident.
>
>Who shall police this new perversion of law? Who will get caught in 
>the net? Will you be making sure all the restaurants only use non 
>GMO or do you want the State that you are expanding to do that?
>
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>At 11:10 AM 10/3/2012, you wrote:
> > In reference to the "libertarian" point of view... since when are 
> all laws bad? Why would requiring a company to disclose ingredients 
> to the consumer not allow for more choice, more competition and 
> more integrity to commerce? From the "libertarian" point of view I 
> would think this is a home run.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Leigh Skinner <<mailto:[addr­ess removed]>[address­ removed]>
> > To: <mailto:[address removed]>[address­ removed]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3,[masked]:19 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural vitamin B6 but allows 
> GMO's & fluoridation
> >
> > Snewbegin:
> >
> > There are other mandates that save lives, like laws against 
> murder and robbery.  No mandates is anarchy.  Is that what you're after?
> >
> > But aside from that, people are dying from the FDA's actions, or 
> rather inaction because of big corporations and congressional 
> shortcomings.  In the meantime a non-government sponsored 
> initiative, Prop 37, is on the ballot to try and contend with the 
> FDA until it hopefully goes away someday.  I don't expect the 
> government to enforce it, but it will give people like me the tools 
> to sue if I am ever hurt by a manufacturer's unlisted GMO 
> ingredients (if they are a significant percentage) and I can prove it.
> >
> > You, of course, are free to vote against it.  But someday the 
> government will hit too close to home for you, and perhaps then you 
> will understand that a narrow set of mandates does not take away 
> your liberty.  And I notice that you haven't explained how labeling 
> takes away your liberty?  Seems to me that it helps to inform us, 
> and an informed citizenry is what will eventually set us 
> free.  That is one of the main points of Audit the Fed, because 
> when everyone learns what they are doing to this country, they will 
> rebel and End the Fed.  In a similar way, when the population sees 
> how much GMO's have taken over our food, both packaged and fresh, 
> they will not be pleased.  Right now I argue with uninformed people 
> about GMO's because they don't realize how prevalent they are.
> >
> > And as for Libertarian thought, I agree with much of it, but I 
> believe there can occasionally be exceptions in extraordinary times.
> >
> >
> >
> > Leigh
> > It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, 
> tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the 
> minds of men. Samuel Adams
> > Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors 
> to live at the expense of everybody else. Frederic Bastiat
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "<mailto:[address­ removed]>[address­ removed]" 
> <<mailto:[addr­ess removed]>[address­ removed]>
> > To: <mailto:[address removed]>[address­ removed]
> > Cc: Leigh Skinner <<mailto:[addr­ess removed]>[address­ removed]>
> > Sent: Tue, October 2,[masked]:06:10 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural vitamin B6 but allows 
> GMO's & fluoridation
> >
> >
> > ---- Leigh Skinner 
> <<mailto:[addr­ess removed]><mail­to:[address removed]>[address­ removed]> wrote:
> > Leigh, from a libertarian point of view the FDA should not exist. 
> Actually, it is the libertarians
> > educating people on its principles that will make it not a fringe party.
> > I understand your passion but someone else has a passion somewhere else
> > that is requiring the government with its legalized violence to 
> carry out its
> > mandates. You need to read more Austrian economics and libertarian thought
> > to see there is another way.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>Michael Benoit
>Ron Paul for President
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Michael Benoit
Ron Paul for President
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