Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural vitamin B6 but allows GMO's & fluoridation

From: Leigh S.
Sent on: Saturday, October 6, 2012 12:11 PM
Ryan,

Please explain to me how labeling a product denies anyone their rights?  Two competing interests, to label and not to label are at odds.  If you don't like the labeling, don't read them.  This is like the First Amendment on religious liberty.  Those who don't want to see a cross on top of a mountain because it bothers their sensibilities are trying to remove crosses across the country because they believe in the erroneous "separation of church and state" which isn't in the Constitution, but they forget that religious liberty means we all get what we want.  Those who don't want to be religious aren't being forced to join a church and those who want to put up crosses can do so.  "Congress shall pass no law with respect to establishment of religion" protects atheists and other religions, and "Nor interfere with the free exercise thereof" protects the religious.

In the same way, labeling GMO's protects those who want to know, and those who don't like it can ignore the labels and get their food as they previously did.  You have no more right to dictate how I make my choices than I have to tell you how to make yours.  
 
Leigh
It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men. Samuel Adams
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. Frederic Bastiat



From: Ryan <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Sat, October 6,[masked]:45:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural vitamin B6 but allows GMO's & fluoridation

States rights doesn't mean a majority can deprive a minority of their rights. If we believed it did, we could vote to ban gay marriage. Oh wait. Licenses are dirty, in fact. Why shouldn't a person who decides to open a free clinic with certain methods of care not be able to? Isn't it my choice whether I go or not? I need to ask permission to get married? No thanks. What it does, is reduce employment, gives us  less choices and increases costs. Again, protecting businesses already in place from competition. Good thing Thomas Edison isn't alive, poor guy wouldn't of got a license.


GMO like everything else, is becoming widely known as not acceptable. The war on terror was "ok" as well, now to the majority it's not. The people should demand and change and the companies will reflect that. It's smart to tell someone what is in their product. Good companies with out the force of government would do it, those who don't, well...we get a good idea who we probably should stay away from. The problem is, what is next? As right as it may be, who is the judge and jury here for deciding what government can interfere with and not? While you may think this is practical, what is stopping your neighbor and others demanding something else? Where is the line, who is right? Which morals are correct? It's a tough thing. Were so far into tyranny would it be better to just at least vote for something that actually would benefit ourselves well-being, regardless if we throw away our principle? I don't know.

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Leigh Skinner <[address removed]> wrote:
Cameron,
 
While Coke and refined white sugar are bad for one, we are told this in many ways as we are growing up.  GMO's are entirely different, as they are being presented publicly as just fine.  And the market approach will take a lot longer.  Walmart has a limited number or organic, but what about their other choices?  The commercials against Prop 37 are falsing saying it will drive up prices.  We already have food labeling, but a few things aren't included in the requirements.  Just how is it driving up prices to add two words, GMO corn, or GMO peaches, or whatever, to the list?
 
And one more thing.  As Ron Paul supporters, we believe in states rights.  Now here is CA voting, not a federal mandate.  Is it really wrong if the overwhelming majority of Californians vote to label GMO's?  Isn't such freedom what we've been campaigning for?
 
Leigh
It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men. Samuel Adams
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. Frederic Bastiat



From: Cameron Butler <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Fri, October 5,[masked]:34:52 AM

Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural vitamin B6 but allows GMO's & fluoridation

Emotionally I tend to agree with all of the arguments for mandatory labeling.  However, couldn't one use the same arguments to contend that a health disclosure should be placed on a sack of refined white sugar, or a can of coca cola?  Those things (certainly at the level that the clear majority of americans consume them) are a serious health hazard in my estimation.

I wouldn't vehemently oppose GMO labeling, but wouldn't a liberty-consistent approach to this be that consumers choose not to purchase products that don't certify whether or not they contain GMO ingredients?  Sure, its more expensive than buying General Mills, Post, Kellogg, etc., but GMO garbage is cheap!  In many other first world nations they spend a much higher percentage of income on food than we do.  Healthy food is a choice.  For instance, when consumers voted with their pocketbook to get more organic, gluten free, etc. products, Walmart chose to carry more such items.  

Do I believe corporations can be influenced by or participate in a political agenda, even a nefarious agenda?  Yes, I do.  But I also believe they are primarily influenced by consumer demand.  If we demand real food through our purchasing decisions we don't need the nanny state government to protect us from the GMO Frankenfood.

Respectfully,
Cameron

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Rob Hanbury <[address removed]> wrote:
I don't live in east county but today was the first time in like a year where "chemtrails" really came across as blatant and in your face. 

To me, asking for mandatory labeling is against libertarian ideology, you're right Mike, but it's one of the few exceptions where I'm willing to abondon my philosophy for practical advancement, does it make me a hypocrite as a Ron Paul supporter? Perhaps. Oh well! It is a serious enough issue where I don't mind some requirements because the fraud these companies have committed has not resulted in any kind prosecution or forced them to change. Since we don't have a free market system, and since the general population is unaware of the fact the 60% of the things they eat are unfit for human consumption  I'm all for prop 37.

-Rob Hanbury



From: [address removed]
To: [address removed]

Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural vitamin B6 but allows GMO's & fluoridation
Date: Thu, 4 Oct[masked]:57:03 -0400


I'm voting YES too on Prop. 37. Had we known the stuff was in the corn my father wouldn't have eaten Corn Flakes every day for  years only to have cancer and other health issues. The stuff in the milk he drank from the cows they gave shots to in order to produce more milk probably killed him too.
 
Food today is NOT packaged like they did 10+ years ago. Crops are NOT grown the same with all the chemicals and pesticides. Sure if you eat it once or twice every month maybe no big deal but the older generation just eat plain foods and THIS plain, unlabeled processed food can KILL! I want to know if it is real or created in a lab. Then its MY choice to buy or not. If the gov't says its "safe" I believe the opposite!
 
FYI did you notice in the sky Chemtrails today in east county?
From: david <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, October 3,[masked]:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural vitamin B6 but allows GMO's & fluoridation

GMO foods are an attack on everyone. GMO foods have been proven to cause tumors, cancers, etc..... and with that being the case, I would consider the labeling requirement a law a law that is "defensive in nature". I should at least be warned that I am eating poison when I crack open a box of Frosted Flakes. Should we not have the liberty to decide our own health? How is our liberty not protected then when we can be poisoned and not warned in advance? I see nothing wrong with transparency and full disclosure. I want the liberty to decide whether I eat good food or bad food but how can I tell the difference if the person selling the food is not honest about what is inside it? 

Correct me if I am wrong, this new law will require foods containing GMO's to be labeled. It mandates nothing of the opposite.

If the small farmer does not purchase GMO seeds then why would anyone bother coming up with an idea to mandate a label that says so. That is not what this proposition is about.

I am voting Yes on Prop 37 and below is an example why,

It's the same shit, just a different decade  




From: Mike Benoit <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, October 3,[masked]:50 AM
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural vitamin B6 but allows GMO's & fluoridation

"What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual right to lawful defense" Laws are bad when they are a perversion of the definition above. We have a right to defend our rights with deadly force if need be and that right can be delegated as a power to government for the common application of this responsive force. Laws against murder, robbery, and rape are defensive in nature (they. They are not mandates (forcing people to do something). Forcing people or companies to label their products are a perversion, of law. You don't protect rights by violating rights. You have the right to buy or not buy any product that is out there. By claiming that people can force other people to do things against their will is a support for tyranny. What is tyranny? It is the taking control of something without the right to do so.

We can delegate to government only that which we have a right to do ourselves.

Now since some people are ready to take away liberty and property rights from other people I only hope they realize their own inconsistency and do not complain when others do it to them.

Of course we know that when you give up liberty for security you end up with neither. Laws like this hurt the little guys and justify government making it illegal to sell from your own garden. After all you don't have the label on. Special interest groups get waivers. Sometimes seed can travel in the wind and land on a farm where the farmer only planted heirloom seed yet some GMO seed made its way into his farm. So the products he produces and you eat have some gmo by accident.

Who shall police this new perversion of law? Who will get caught in the net? Will you be making sure all the restaurants only use non GMO or do you want the State that you are expanding to do that?


Mike



At 11:10 AM 10/3/2012, you wrote:
> In reference to the "libertarian" point of view... since when are all laws bad? Why would requiring a company to disclose ingredients to the consumer not allow for more choice, more competition and more integrity to commerce? From the "libertarian" point of view I would think this is a home run.
>
>
>
> From: Leigh Skinner <[address removed]>
> To: [address removed]

> Sent: Wednesday, October 3,[masked]:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural vitamin B6 but allows GMO's & fluoridation
>
> Snewbegin:
>
> There are other mandates that save lives, like laws against murder and robbery.  No mandates is anarchy.  Is that what you're after?
>
> But aside from that, people are dying from the FDA's actions, or rather inaction because of big corporations and congressional shortcomings.  In the meantime a non-government sponsored initiative, Prop 37, is on the ballot to try and contend with the FDA until it hopefully goes away someday.  I don't expect the government to enforce it, but it will give people like me the tools to sue if I am ever hurt by a manufacturer's unlisted GMO ingredients (if they are a significant percentage) and I can prove it.
>
> You, of course, are free to vote against it.  But someday the government will hit too close to home for you, and perhaps then you will understand that a narrow set of mandates does not take away your liberty.  And I notice that you haven't explained how labeling takes away your liberty?  Seems to me that it helps to inform us, and an informed citizenry is what will eventually set us free.  That is one of the main points of Audit the Fed, because when everyone learns what they are doing to this country, they will rebel and End the Fed.  In a similar way, when the population sees how much GMO's have taken over our food, both packaged and fresh, they will not be pleased.  Right now I argue with uninformed people about GMO's because they don't realize how prevalent they are.
>
> And as for Libertarian thought, I agree with much of it, but I believe there can occasionally be exceptions in extraordinary times.
>
>
>
> Leigh
> It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men. Samuel Adams
> Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. Frederic Bastiat
>
>
>
> From: "[address removed]" <[address removed]>
> To: [address removed]
> Cc: Leigh Skinner <[address removed]>

> Sent: Tue, October 2,[masked]:06:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural vitamin B6 but allows GMO's & fluoridation
>
>
> ---- Leigh Skinner <<mailto:[address removed]>[address removed]> wrote:
> Leigh, from a libertarian point of view the FDA should not exist. Actually, it is the libertarians
> educating people on its principles that will make it not a fringe party.
> I understand your passion but someone else has a passion somewhere else
> that is requiring the government with its legalized violence to carry out its
> mandates. You need to read more Austrian economics and libertarian thought
> to see there is another way.
>
>
>
>
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