Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural vitamin B6 but allows GMO's & fluoridation

From: Mike B.
Sent on: Thursday, October 18, 2012 9:59 AM
Mandatory seat belt laws do not prevent me 
voluntarily using a seat belt Leigh. I think a 
better question for you to ask is how am I hurt 
by the law (which is not the point as I argue for 
freedom not for my benefit). To answer that 
question. Products with GMO are at numerous 
levels in food production systems. Even the 
smallest producers just as a small snack bar 
company will have gmo material in their product 
i.e. soy or corn. They will have to label their 
product contains GMO. and most likely will loose 
some of their market due to pr promotions against 
GMO's so they will have to compensate by heavier 
pr campaigns of their own or raise prices to 
cover profit loss and that is passed on to the 
consumers. Or some of you will say they can seek 
out non GMO soy or corn (always at a higher cost) 
to put in their product and pass the increase in 
cost on to their consumers. What if in this 
booming economy this is the straw that breaks 
some companies backs? What about those who don't 
knowingly use GMO in their products? Of course 
they don't have to label right? Do you think that 
they will not be forced to have their product 
verified to be GMO free? Do you think that is 
without cost? Do you think that they will not be 
caught up in lawsuits fines or penalties if GMO 
made it into their product without their knowledge?

All of this is plunder of liberty, property and 
other rights all because some who don't want to 
do the work of seeking out non GMO food on their 
own think they can make others by the force of 
the law perverted do their bidding.

MIke





At 05:44 PM 10/17/2012, you wrote:
>Mike,
>
>How does labeling prevent you from buying the product anyway?
>
>Leigh
>It does not take a majority to prevail, but 
>rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on 
>setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men. Samuel Adams
>Government is the great fiction through which 
>everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. Frederic Bastiat
>
>
>
>From: Mike Benoit <[address removed]>
>To: [address removed]
>Sent: Wed, October 17,[masked]:08:40 PM
>Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural 
>vitamin B6 but allows GMO's & fluoridation
>
>David, I am sorry you want to sell cars that 
>explode and kill people. If that is your 
>intention labeling will not help us. In fact do 
>you think a murderer will be deterred if you 
>make it mandatory that he label the products he intends to kill people with?
>
>You seem to think the labeling will stop the murderer.
>I take you don't want to prohibit GMO you just 
>want to make the users label the product GMO
>
>Using that logic of the car manufacture who 
>wants to kill I think that your opinion is the 
>producers of products with GMO in them all want 
>to kill us and that if we make them disclose that on a label we will be safe.
>
>This translates to you want to prohibit a 
>producer of a product with GMO in it from 
>selling that product without a label even though 
>people like me do not care. So you think 
>government has the right to interfer with the right to contract.
>
>I have often seen you eat fast food. Do you 
>check with the producer to see if GMO is part of that food?
>
>Are you against allowing companies who produce 
>products with gmo in them from engaging in the 
>market place with those of us who do not care about gmo?
>
>Mike
>
>
>At 09:38 AM 10/17/2012, you wrote:
> > Ken Ken Ken,
> >
> >
> > If I want to sell cars that explode and kill 
> your family, by design, at 42 miles on the 
> odometer then you have no right to force me to 
> disclose that my product will kill you. How dare you!
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Ken Costanzo <<mailto:[addr­ess removed]>[address­ removed]>
> > To: <mailto:[address removed]>[address­ removed]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 16,[masked]:41 PM
> > Subject: RE: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural 
> vitamin B6 but allows GMO's & fluoridation
> >
> > A food manufacturer does not have the right 
> to put poison in the food he sells to me. And, 
> even if there is not yet a law prohibiting a 
> particular poison because not enough people 
> have died from it, That manufacturer does not 
> have the right to hide the fact that the food 
> contains a suspected poison by failing to 
> disclose this information. In fact, there is 
> zero monetary cost to adding this information 
> to the label. The reason for hiding it is the 
> fact that people, if they knew about it, would not buy his product.
> >
> > It is the manufacturer who is acting 
> immorally. A law requiring him to cease his 
> immorality is not a violation of libertarian principles.
> >
> > Ken-
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------
> > From: <mailto:[address removed]>[address­ removed]
> > To: <mailto:[address removed]>[address­ removed]
> > Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural 
> vitamin B6 but allows GMO's & fluoridation
> > Date: Tue, 16 Oct[masked]:59:18 -0400
> >
> > Ken,
> > Morality is usually, if not always, an is or 
> isn't proposition. There is no or little gray area.
> > Morality is always a choice of conscious, 
> morality however is often misrepresented by 
> law. So if it is immoral for me as an 
> individual to steal your property or your right 
> to manage your business as you see fit, then 
> how can it be moral for you to enlist government to accomplish this for you?
> >
> > Ken: "The reason people, individually or 
> collectively, have the right to obtain this 
> information is that food is a necessity of life."
> >
> > Bink: This business is not yours, 
> individually or collectively and you do not 
> have the right to force your will on them 
> regardless of the fact that food is a necessity 
> of life. "Necessity" is the catch all phrase 
> that the bureaucrats use to plunder us 
> continuously. Necessity does not elevate us 
> from acting morally, even though others around 
> us act immorally. An immortal law or regulation 
> is not made moral just because it is a law.
> > Bastiat: There is in all of us a strong 
> disposition to believe that anything lawful is 
> also legitimate. This belief is so widespread 
> that many persons have erroneously held that 
> things are "just" because law makes them so.
> >
> > Ken: "We cannot choose not to eat. Therefore, 
> the manufacturers of food products have a 
> greater moral responsibility to their customers 
> that the manufacturers of other types of 
> products. A law requiring them to meet this 
> moral responsibility is not plunder."
> >
> > Bink: We can choose not to eat GMO, why would 
> we prefer they labeled their GMO laden food 
> anyway, so we can eat it while we read the 
> label? There are lots of food that do not use 
> GMO, there are many producers who already 
> freely choose to label their food as Non GMO. 
> This additional cost they willingly pay to 
> promote their moral stance on safe food. There 
> is no such thing as forced morality, you can 
> not force morality but you can encourage a 
> facsimile there of in the free market place. No 
> such thing as greater or lesser morality, it 
> either is or isn't. Plunder is more than just 
> stealing, the law and even the acceptability of 
> immoral law is a result of plunder. They have 
> plundered the very concept of morality and the 
> understanding of what right and wrong is. 
> Nothing, no extenuating circumstances or even 
> necessity can change the fact that we can not 
> control another's life, liberty or property and remain right and moral.
> >
> > Bastiat: When law and morality contradict 
> each other, the citizen has the cruel 
> alternative of either losing his moral sense or 
> losing his respect for the law. These two evils 
> are of equal consequence, and it would be 
> difficult for a person to choose between them. 
> The nature of law is to maintain justice. This 
> is so much the case that, in the minds of the 
> people, law and justice are one and the same 
> thing. There is in all of us a strong 
> disposition to believe that anything lawful is 
> also legitimate. This belief is so widespread 
> that many persons have erroneously held that 
> things are "just" because law makes them so. 
> Thus, in order to make plunder appear just and 
> sacred to many consciences, it is only 
> necessary for the law to decree and sanction 
> it. Slavery, restrictions, and monopoly find 
> defenders not only among those who profit from 
> them but also among those who suffer from them.
> >
> >
> > Bink
> >
> > On Oct 16, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Ken Costanzo 
> <<mailto:[addr­ess removed]><mail­to:[address removed]>[address­ removed]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Mike,
> > Apparently, you are so desperate to win this 
> labeling debate that you are willing to pull a 
> sentence out of context and misrepresent what 
> was said. I guess this is why you chose to send 
> your email without the thread of the conversation.
> > You know perfectly well that I did not say it 
> was okay for the government to do something 
> BECAUSE I was unable to do it myself. My 
> statement (see below) was in response to 
> Bingâ€â™s question (see below) regarding 
> whether it was moral to collectively force 
> someone to do something when we do not have the 
> right to individually force them.
> > My answer was that while it may be 
> impractical to do this individually, it was 
> nevertheless moral because of the moral duty of 
> companies who manufacture food not to produce harmful food.
> > Mike, you previously resorted to an ad 
> hominem attack and now you misrepresent what 
> was said. I didn’t know that there was such 
> a thing as a LIBERAL liblibertarian. Did Saul 
> Alinsky write a sequel – Rules for Libertariaan Radicals?
> >  Ken-
> > Bing’s questionion:
> > Lets stick with the problem of "does anyone 
> have the moral right to make someone else do 
> something collectively that they do not have the right to do individually?"
> > My response:
> > If I could deal directly with the 
> manufacturer of every food product I buy and 
> force them to tell me if their product 
> contained GMOs, I would do so. However, this is 
> not practical. However, if it was possible to 
> do this, and everyone who wanted this 
> information did it, the burden on manufacturers 
> to respond individually to each person would be 
> far more costly than a change to their label.
> >
> > The reason people, individually or 
> collectively, have the right to obtain this 
> information is that food is a necessity of 
> life. We cannot choose not to eat. Therefore, 
> the manufacturers of food products have a 
> greater moral responsibility to their customers 
> that the manufacturers of other types of 
> products. A law requiring them to meet this 
> moral responsibility is not plunder.
> >
> >
> > > To: <mailto:[address removed]>[address­ removed]
> > > From: 
> <mailto:[address removed]><mail­to:[address removed]>[address­ removed]
> > > Subject: RE: [ronpaul-93] FDA bans natural 
> vitamin B6 but allows GMO's & fluoridation
> > > Date: Tue, 16 Oct[masked]:45:46 -0400
> > >
> > > Here it is. Ken believes that since he can't make businesses do what
> > > he wants then he subscribes to the idea that the government can make
> > > them do his bidding. "If4 I could deal directly with the manufacturer
> > > of every food product I buy and force them to tell me if their
> > > product contained GMOs, I would do so."
> > >
> > > Ken please ad admit that you believe in democracy where the majority
> > > can rule the minority.
> > >
> > > Another thing that amazing me is the two strongest advocates for this
> > > prop 37, I have observed eat some of the most unhealthy food along
> > > with me. I drain a half a cup of lard off some hamburger I cooked
> > > this week and east a lot of those Natural Valley crunchy bars. I of
> > > course read the label but that didn't stop me. If only the label said
> > > hazardous to your health I would not have destroyed myself like this.
> > >
> > > The so called natural foods are on one side of this (with the
> > > exception of trader joes) and the GMO producers on the other side.
> > > This is nothing more than GM trying to get an upper hand over Ford at
> > > the expense of all of us.
> > >
> > > Will the cost of food go up? Of course it will for this reason and
> > > for so many others. When we are all in the soup line will you blame
> > > it on not enough government or too much government? Please don't say
> > > then that you tried to make the government smaller prop 37 people.
> > >
> > > This is voting for more government and that is why some less
> > > government folks are not really less government.
> > >
> > > Let the nanny state crush us as it is and listen to Jesus say "Father
> > > forgive them for they know not what they do"
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > At 08:44 AM 10/16/2012, you wrote:
> > > >If4 I could deal directly with the manufacturer of every food
> > > >product I buy and force them to tell me if their product contained
> > > >GMOs, I would do so.
> > >
> > > Michael Benoit
> > > Ron Paul for President
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> <<http://www.meetup...­
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