Re: [ronpaul-93] RE: Amnesty attempt again and again

From: James R.
Sent on: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 10:47 AM
Cameron,

Leigh makes valid points.  Gov. data is often tainted.  The DHS report shows there is estimated ~29 million unauthorized residents counting family members.  You can find the breakdowns  in the links.  BTW during that same period ~19 million legally immigrated to the USA.

You can read for yourself the Government numbers.  The trade deficit is upwards of 50 Billion a month.  Yes, the economy sucks and finding a decent job sucks.
I started my own business, and the State of California makes that nearly impossible but for only those with the strongest fortitude.  However, I now plan to move to Asia soon.  If you read Linda's report, she estimates 92 million jobs CANNOT be economically off shored of the total 130 million potential jobs.

Note: Off shore workers work from India/Russia/China/Canada, etc.  hired from US firms through a foreign or US based recruiting agency.  Apple, for example, has > 5,000 call center workers off shore.  When you call 800 number that is answered in Manilla then routed to another location.  However, when Apple adds more agents in Bangalore, that is added to the US DOL new jobs created.  There is no payroll taxes since they are paid the US FAR Per Diem rate, which is quite high for a Cupertino located firm.  I was not suggesting these workers are illegals, they simply impact the economy negatively and add to a growing Welfare/Food Stamp problem by taking away US job opportunity.

FYI US Census pop. count is 331 million (2010).

Opinion = I would bet good money if you graph the increase in Food Stamps on top of (Off-shore workers + Unauthorized immigration) increases you will find a strong correlation.

JR
____________________
James Reid


Unauthorized Immigrants

US DOL Off Shore Workers ( estimated growth of 375K  annually )



On Feb 6, 2013, at 9:59 AM, Leigh Skinner wrote:

Cameron,
 
I suspect what James is trying to extropolate is that the 11.6 million illegal immigrants end up bringing in relatives as soon as the original invader has a job or better yet, a child.  But the number is higher than 11.6.  While I think 40 million is a bit high, when did the government ever give out accurate figures, as for instance, their unemployment figures which don't take into account those who have quit looking for a job.
 
Before the economy starting really suffering, illegal immigration was nearer to 30 million according to Numbers USA, FAIR, and ALIPAC.  Now it is somewhere between 11 and 20 million, depending on whose figures one accepts.
 
Leigh


It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money. P.J. O'Rourke



From: Cameron Butler <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Wed, February 6,[masked]:44:36 AM
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] RE: Amnesty attempt again and again

Now, I am under no illusions concerning what a crap economy we are in now, with real unemployment in the 15-20% range, but your numbers with "no..opinion" seem to be juxtaposed/presented to create a misleading impression.

28million+ jobs lost to overseas workers and 11.6 million illegal foreign workers in the U.S. adds to 40 million paying jobs?  How?  That is adding apples and oranges.
It only adds to nearly forty million jobs if every one of the illegal foreign workers filled a job that a citizen was formerly filling and lost to the foreign worker.
Also, the weight of the possibly combined numbers do not include any balance of what other jobs were created/gained to offset the lost jobs.  What businesses and jobs were created at higher wages for citizen workers because of the cheap labor from illegal foreign workers?
Also, you are comparing a snapshot in time (total of illegal foreign workers) with a cumulative statistic over an undefined period of time.


On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 9:37 PM, James Reid <[address removed]> wrote:
FIrst there is NO spoken opinion on this but here are some real numbers...form your own.

attached is the DHS estimates of illegal foreign workers in the US (california) to 2008 
 > 11.6 million (2.56 million) <

and the US DOL number of lost US Jobs to off-shore (non-US) workers up to real 2004(est. 2009)
> 20.7 million (28.1 million) <

I think that adds up to a loss of around just under 40 million paying jobs up to 2009.





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