Re: [ronpaul-93] RE: Amnesty attempt again and again

From: Tom M.
Sent on: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 11:03 AM
Also, you seem to think it is the government's responsibility to protect U.S. jobs.  This is wrong in (at least) two ways:  companies should be able to do whatever they think is best to produce their product, even if that means using foreign labor;  and it seems to relieve the individual of the need to become the best option for a company to choose.  While I worry about losing my job, the result of my worry is to work on making myself more valuable and marketable, not to look to the government to protect me.  If we all did that, our economy would thrive.

Most liberty arguments fail with people because the status quo is so strongly ingrained.  A lot of the problems discussed in this thread are due to years and years of government intervention.  Unwinding all of that, even if we can get a consensus on what we should do, will take years and years.

On the general topic of illegal immigration, I believe that the net immigration (lawful and unlawful) from Mexico has become negative (in 2012).  In other words, due to our horrible economy, more Mexicans are leaving the U.S. than are entering the U.S.  So this issue is likely to matter less and less as our economy continues to circle the toilet bowl.

For the record, I'm against amnesty, but I'm for an open border.  If the border is opened (ie, immigration is open to any/all, with exceptions for things like history of violence), then the concept of amnesty is no longer needed, as there would be nothing to have amnesty from.  And I have no illusions about the likelihood of this ever happening.


From: Cameron Butler <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, February 6,[masked]:44 AM
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] RE: Amnesty attempt again and again

Now, I am under no illusions concerning what a crap economy we are in now, with real unemployment in the 15-20% range, but your numbers with "no..opinion" seem to be juxtaposed/presented to create a misleading impression.

28million+ jobs lost to overseas workers and 11.6 million illegal foreign workers in the U.S. adds to 40 million paying jobs?  How?  That is adding apples and oranges.
It only adds to nearly forty million jobs if every one of the illegal foreign workers filled a job that a citizen was formerly filling and lost to the foreign worker.
Also, the weight of the possibly combined numbers do not include any balance of what other jobs were created/gained to offset the lost jobs.  What businesses and jobs were created at higher wages for citizen workers because of the cheap labor from illegal foreign workers?
Also, you are comparing a snapshot in time (total of illegal foreign workers) with a cumulative statistic over an undefined period of time.


On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 9:37 PM, James Reid <[address removed]> wrote:
FIrst there is NO spoken opinion on this but here are some real numbers...form your own.

attached is the DHS estimates of illegal foreign workers in the US (california) to 2008 
 > 11.6 million (2.56 million) <

and the US DOL number of lost US Jobs to off-shore (non-US) workers up to real 2004(est. 2009)
> 20.7 million (28.1 million) <

I think that adds up to a loss of around just under 40 million paying jobs up to 2009.





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Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
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