Re: [ronpaul-93] What is a libertarian?

From: Ben
Sent on: Friday, July 26, 2013 1:06 PM
According to one idea, Libertarian philosophy holds that society has evolved to a point where we should no longer divide ourselves into groups.  We are all individuals protected by the Bill of Rights.

Ben



From: Xian <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, July 26,[masked]:42 PM
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] What is a libertarian?

What is a Libertarian?  According to Chris Christie >> a danger to society.





From: Andrea Bacon <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, July 26,[masked]:58 AM
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] What is a libertarian?

I understand that there is only ONE company that owns the actual news satellites used to transmit the entire world's news too.

Sent from my Samsung smartphone on AT&T

3StepsTowardFreedom <[address removed]> wrote:

>Read below about his views on journalism: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/439668500/liberty-is-rising-truth-in-media-project-0
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>"Reality Check" here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDQVKIVCxwI
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>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNm8xlaOmUU
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>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqgyjdFk0YA Confronts Obama, etc. "backing it up with facts" Great video!
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> Thanks for taking a few moments to look at this guy and possibly pass this on to others. We would definitely have a different outcome within our government's policies of regulation, fiscal responsibility, and basically dismantling of the Constitution if we had more reporting like his on the likes of FOX, CNN, MSNBC, etc.... (The Corporate OWNED media) In the United states we used to have approximately 50 corporations involved in owning our media, now we are down to 5. This begs the question, "What kind of news are we really getting?"
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>On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:05 PM, i4freedom <[address removed]> wrote:
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>LIBERTARIANISM (classical liberalism)
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>    I. Main points of libertarianism (from the word “liberty”):
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>a. Every human is a free, sovereign, independent (adults only) individual with human/natural in/unalienable rights that are supposed to be protected by government which humans created. Every human has the right of self-ownership, self-possession, self-determination and self-actualization. Each human is the primary quality in a society because society is dependent on the human individuals that make up the society (and government). The trees in a forest are the primary quality and the forest is the secondary quality because the forest depends on each tree. All humans have equal primary quality over society and government (both secondary qualities). The society cannot have rights and protections that humans who make up the society do not have, contrary to collectivist ideology. Can a society be free while the individuals are not? The social contract should favor humans. No government should have power over people pertaining to personal property, healthcare, tobacco, alcohol, gambling, sex, food, drinks, drugs, marriage, media or careers. Government and/or law = force. The invisible hand of free-market capitalism works better than any other economic system.
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>b. Humans have the right to keep their property if justly acquired/earned in a free market. Demand, use, scarcity and labor give property value.
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>c. Right to do to and with their body as they please as long as they do not hinder the rights of anyone else. No victim = no crime.
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>d. Equality - If something is immoral, wrong, a rights-violation and/or unlawful for an individual to do personally, then it’s also immoral, wrong, a rights-violation and/or unlawful for an individual(s) to do it as a public servant/politician (agent of the people). Governments should not have more power or authority than the humans who created them. Humans are not a utility or human resource to be used to by others.
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>e. Moral minimum - The specific rule that one should do no intentional harm, often considered the bare minimum required for ethical behavior.
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>f. Non-aggression (zero aggression) principle - no force, threat, duress, coercion or intimidation should be used (politicians included) against moral people.
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>g. Greatest happiness principle (utilitarianism) - Humans should be allowed to pursue happiness and minimize suffering stopping short of hedonism and remaining responsible for their actions.
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>h. Maximum liberty – Humans should have maximum liberty to reach their personal goals with minimal obstacles. Our U.S.A. Constitution is based on “that government is best which governs least” - T. Jefferson and “… border upon anarchy.” - A. Hamilton, Federalist Paper 22. Libertarians oppose: 1. Parental/nanny legislation. Reduces liberty. Power corrupts so no humans should control other adult humans. Dependency is a weakness. 2. Moral legislation. Morals should be determined by culture and individuals based on the Golden Rule and the above. 3. Redistribution of property (legal plunder). Capitalists do “redistribute” their wealth voluntarily by buying and donating (property and/or labor) and “have skin in the game”, unlike politicians. Politicians redistribute property, but no one referees their fairness? Politicians are an unwatched watcher. Taxation = taking of earnings = forced labor = slavery.
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>    II. Opposing arguments to libertarianism followed by rebuttals:
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>a. The poor need money more than the rich. A. In who’s opinion? Who decides who is rich and who is poor and how much the poor should get? Who steals from the rich and determines how much? B. The poor have little money because of what they did or did not do.  C. The rich should not be burdened with supporting others by force. D. The rich and poor do not stay that way. E. Robbing Peter to pay Paul (euphemistically known as an entitlement, benefit and welfare) is wrong because: 1. The handout rewards Paul for doing nothing (operant conditioning) thereby encouraging Paul to continue doing nothing. 2. Is not compassionate for Peter, who earned his pay with good work and maybe some good luck. 3. Physically unhealthy because Paul sits on his butt watching TV for hours a day. 4. Mentally unhealthy because Paul is absorbing the crap on TV, may feel guilty that Peter is working for Peter’s and Paul’s income, and guilty for living as a taker only (no give and take). 5. Money that is given rather than earned will not be spent as wisely. 6. Peter feels anger, discriminated against and powerless because Paul gets to have a share of Peter’s income without Peter’s approval. And if Peter stops paying the tax that supports Paul, Peter may get imprisoned, fined or both. 7. Unfair/unequal to Peter (he has to pay) and Paul (he gets some of Peter’s earnings). 8. Stealing, robbing, embezzlement and extortion are ethically wrong and lawfully wrong. Workers work about two hours every workday just to pay the federal income tax. Government can only give what it first takes. 9. Is unconstitutional. 10. Makes Paul a dependent (parasite). Dependency puts Paul under the control of a government. 11. Is based on a lie that Paul “cannot” get or keep a job or some other excuse or that Peter exploited Paul. 12. Government handouts will hurt Peter’s and Paul’s children with the national debt and lost political power. 13. Peter is supporting problems (addiction to drugs, alcohol and/or gambling, etc.) that Paul likely has. 14. Equality is impossible because humans are so different in motivation, talent and career choices. 15. Is a disrespect for property (money is property) ownership. 16. Indicates that Paul wants some of his property stolen when the Golden Rule is applied. 17. Shows what a selfish, lazy, irresponsible, greedy parasite Paul is. He probably has no pity for Peter and no shame of the burden Paul is putting on society. Is this what Paul’s parents wanted him to be when he grew up? Is Paul acting like a grown up?
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>b. Progressive taxation by majority vote is fair. A. “Fair” to the majority only. Can the majority overrule property rights? Democracy (majority rules) leads to mob rule. Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what is for dinner. What if the majority voted to steal from the poor and give to the rich? B. More humans benefit from 1 healthy human being killed and his organs harvested for 5 sick humans, but this violates the rights to self possession and ownership of one’s body and life. C. The rich expand their business less and buy fewer expensive items when taxed heavily. D. Should the rich pay more for gasoline, food, clothing, electricity and telephone just because they have more money?
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>c. The rich owe society. A. Owe what, why and how much? Who decides? By what and how much force should be used to redistribute the earned riches? How much should the force/middleman keep to redistribute the riches? Who referees? The feds keep 72+-% of welfare taxes. B. Do the poor owe society? If so, what and how much? They typically use more “social”(ist) programs than the rich.  
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>d. Others in society helped the wealthy get their wealth or it was by luck. A. The rich own their labor and got paid voluntarily for providing their skills. B. If society deserves money from the successful, then to be fair society should also get from the unsuccessful? C. Those who helped the rich get rich were also compensated. Why should government overrule the free market and decide that their compensation was not enough? D. The results of luck should not be shared by force. Should a lottery winner share by force? E. People are different in their skills, knowledge, motivation, career, luck and access to property. Therefore, it is impossible, immoral and unlawful for government to try to financially equalize by playing Robin Hood (a fictional character). F. The media help the rich get richer by promoting their products or services and make the rich desirable for endorsing products or services. G. It takes money to make money. Wealth has a snowball effect.
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>    The above 4 arguments are based on feelings of jealousy, greed, envy, laziness, irresponsibility and/or selfishness. Jealousy is the reason that collectivists want some of the money owned by the rich, but not the middle class. How poor does a person have to be before collectivists do not want their money?
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>e. Humans cannot be trusted so government laws and regulations are needed. A. Then humans should not regulate either. Humans who “work for government” (politicians) are typically worse than others. “Power tends to corrupt…” – Lord Acton. Politicians tend to usurp, commit malfeasance and misfeasance, racketeer, be megalomaniacs, exaggerate, lie, cheat, extort, bribe or get bribed, perjure, be egotistical, be power-hungry, be arrogant, tax, steal, arrest and even murder (democide). B. The unregulated regulator is dangerous, corrupt and unconstitutional. C. No human can find, read, understand, remember and comply with the changing city, county, state and national color of law.  
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>     III. More information:[masked] for current events; reason.com; John Locke, “father” of libertarianism (classical liberalism); John Stuart Mill; Jeremy Bentham; www.liberalsanonymous.us . Harvard lecture on libertarianism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PdCeXsLqg0g  Famous libertarians: Thomas Jefferson, Ron Paul, John Stossel, Lew Rockwell, Andrew Napolitano, Tom Woods, Penn and Teller, Walter Williams, Kennedy, Chuck Baldwin, Nick Gillespie, Matt Welch, David Boaz.
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