Re: [ronpaul-93] Monsanto / Big Food / Corporatism / Free Market / 2 Short Videos

From: Vance L.
Sent on: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 8:26 PM
Andrea,
The question is not whether you are for or against food labeling, but whether you are for or against  labeling by the force of the state.

Do you believe that the market would not fulfill your labeling desires without government intervention? 

The link Mike posted, as well as my link to Trader Joe's, shows the opposite. Recently, Chipotle voluntarily labeled their non GMO foods. To believe that laws are required to change the landscape of the GMO "battle" is to believe in an authoritarian approach. 

Vance

Sent from my BlackBerry Z10.
 
From: Andrea Bacon
Sent: Tuesday, August 6,[masked]:14 PM
To: [address removed]
Reply To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] Monsanto / Big Food / Corporatism / Free Market /
2 Short Videos

Okay I guess I'm in the debate now. I agree that food should be labeled most definitely. including the animal products that are injected with hormones and antibiotics. especially GMOs they are harmful our body processes that DNA. and as far as the IRS is concerned, they can go. if you want it tapered off every 6 months do a layoff that would be great. the Constitution does not call for that agency nor does it call for our labor to be taxed. we could be creative and find other means to pay for public services and our roads etc. and as for all the people getting laid off maybe they'll start businesses of their own?

Sent from my Samsung smartphone on AT&T

Leigh Skinner <[address removed]> wrote:

>Andrea,
>

>
>Of course, Mike will have to clarify his own views, but I believe he doesn't want to use government to solve the problem of controlling what Monsanto is doing because he is against any kind of control, which he sees as tyranny.  I normally agree with that, but with the huge amount of corporate money and power that they have, and the way the government is colluding with them, we all don't stand a chance of rectifying this mess except by legislative means on a local and state level, one state at a time as the Founders intended with states' rights.  Prop 37 would have done that.  The idea that we can't hurt anyone in trying to solve this is being naïve.
>

>
>Ending the ed or the IRS, which Mike advocates, would put at least a million people out of work, in and out of the government, such as the CPA's that do taxes and some of those who work for banks.  And think of all the businesses that support these efforts, like office supply stores and printing companies and postage related businesses.  Not as many would be needed without the income tax.  They all came along after 1913.
>

>
>Leigh
>
>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
>
>
>Truth is treason in the empire of lies. Ron Paul
>
>
>From: Andrea Bacon <[address removed]>
>To: [address removed]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 6,[masked]:05 AM
>Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] Monsanto / Big Food / Corporatism / Free Market / 2 Short Videos
>
>
>I don't think that's what Mike is trying to say. what I'm gathering from your guys' debate is that we have to be careful what laws are used for. because today we have misguided laws with ill intent towards civilians.  Example : IF a gun ban law passes (& they're trying real hard) , how does this protect law abiding peeps from law breaking peeps?? It does not! It protects HLS from law abiding peeps, that's it
>
>Sent from my Samsung smartphone on AT&T
>
>Leigh Skinner <[address removed]> wrote:
>
>>Mike,
>>
>>
>>No, we want to hit a lic' against government tyranny by mitigating their form of mandatory labeling by making it more accurate until we can do away with the practice all together.  You want to let the chemical companies expand their influence even more.  Rarely is it right to use the law to control others, but that doesn't mean it should never be done.  That is what a war is, stopping the enemy from advancing.  We are in a eugenics war and right now the government is winning.  You want to just stand by the sidelines and let them win this particular conflict.  As one who went up against the IRS and lost, have lost you will to outwit the government thugs?  I pick my battles, and this is mine, as it is winnable.
>>
>> 
>>
>>Leigh
>>
>>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
>>
>>
>>Truth is treason in the empire of lies. Ron Paul
>>
>>
>>From: Mike Benoit <[address removed]>
>>To: [address removed]
>>Sent: Saturday, August 3,[masked]:23 PM
>>Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] Monsanto / Big Food / Corporatism / Free Market / 2 Short Videos
>>
>>
>>So the answer is less government not more and it is naive at best to think you will win control of a giant government. You want to be in charge of the abuse?
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>At 07:37 AM 8/3/2013, you wrote:
>>> Ron Paul is against "corporatism." That is where large corporations control government.
>>>
>>> Would you rather have just a few big farms, or a 100,000 small ones?  We know what Monsanto wants.
>>>
>>> Monsanto is out to destroy it's competition, using influence in government as an advantage.  If a small farmer has his field polluted with genetically modified organisms, against his wishes - guess what? - he is held civilly liable for "patent infringement."  And our court system has sided with Monsanto.  What is wrong with that picture?
>>>
>>> Small Farmers are harassed and persecuted by regulatory agencies much to the glee of "Big Food."  Big corporations don't want competition from local, independent producers with a better product.  They address these concerns by passing regulations that hinder the small independent producer, and they use the media to spread scary ideas (We need GMO's to feed the world.  Labeling will increase food costs tremendously.  Raw Milk is dangerous.  etc.)
>>>
>>> The thing we should be scared about is GMOs.  See short portion of the Documentary "Genetic Roulette" below.
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLvxSm2NfRM>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLvxSm2NfRM
>>>
>>> If Monsanto is for it, I am against it - Joel Salantin - Successful Libertarian Organic Farmer.
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMd7DDWMcF8>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMd7DDWMcF8
>>>
>>> See his many videos on sustainable farming on youtube.  He has published many books on the subject.  He has testified before congress and his message seems to ring true.
>>>
>>> <http://wonkistan.com/post/40525848383/joel-salatin-a-self-described>http://wonkistan.com/post/40525848383/joel-salatin-a-self-described
>>>
>>> Ben
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Mike Benoit <[address removed]>
>>> To: [address removed]
>>> Sent: Friday, August 2,[masked]:04 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] Monsanto Virtually Gives Up on Growing GMO Crops in Europe
>>>
>>> So you want GMOs banned under the name of safety. If someone wants to
>>> sell me a product and I want to buy it then it is none of your
>>> business and you have no right to mandate that they label their product.
>>>
>>> You make the same argument the gun grabbers make. "we only want
>>> reasonable legislation" yet when something is banned they cheer from
>>> the roof top.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 01:42 PM 8/2/2013, you wrote:
>>> >Mike,
>>> >
>>> >You fought against Prop 37 to label GMO's, which would have put us
>>> >in the position of Monsanto leaving this country eventually like
>>> >they did recently in Europe.  Then the Libertarian answer to
>>> >defeating GMO's was to lead a protest against them in Balboa Park a
>>> >month or two after the prop was defeated.  How did that go, by the
>>> >way?  Was Monsanto quaking in their shoes?
>>> >
>>> >Over 600 million people in Europe signed a petition supporting
>>> >health freedom and against tyranny. Our government is socialist, but
>>> >you and I and many other Americans aren't.  Same in Europe.  Since
>>> >when is informing the public considered tyranny?  Seems to be
>>> >liberating to me.  Now the EU is gradually patenting natural
>>> >supplements like Folic Acid and raw produce like broccoli, so that
>>> >is the continent's next battle.  Sounds like tyranny to me,
>>> >Mike.  You need to chill out on what you consider tyranny.  The IRS
>>> >and the NSA and the Fed, yes.  Informing people like me that there
>>> >is fluordated water, or GMO's, or any other dangerous chemical in
>>> >food is for 500 million Americans. Liberty to swing my arms ends
>>> >where your nose begins, doesn't it?
>>> >
>>> >Leigh
>>> >
>>> >In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary
>>> >act. George Orwell
>>> >
>>> >Truth is treason in the empire of lies. Ron Paul
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >From: Mike Benoit <<mailto:[address removed]>[address removed]>
>>> >To: <mailto:[address removed]>[address removed]
>>> >Sent: Monday, July 22,[masked]:48 PM
>>> >Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] Monsanto Virtually Gives Up on Growing GMO
>>> >Crops in Europe
>>> >
>>> >A missed opportunity for tyranny. Lets all look to socialist Europe
>>> >for what to do.
>>> >
>>> >Mike
>>> >
>>> >At 01:32 PM 7/22/2013, you wrote:
>>> > > My sister sent me this bit of news.  Europe has had mandatory
>>> > labeling and has been opposing GMO's for years, and it seems to
>>> > have worked without pesky lawsuits or hurting any businesses.  This
>>> > could have happened in this country if California's prop 37 had
>>> > passed. A missed opportunity.
>>> > >
>>> > > Leigh
>>> > >
>>> > > In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a
>>> > revolutionary act. George Orwell
>>> > >
>>> > > Truth is treason in the empire of lies. Ron Paul
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Monsanto Virtually Gives Up on Growing GMO Crops in Europe
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > By John Upton, Grist
>>> > > 20 July 13
>>> > >
>>> > > []
>>> > > onsanto has pretty much given up any hope (at least for now) of
>>> > selling its genetically engineered seeds for corn, sugar beets, and
>>> > other crops in Europe, where opposition to GMO food is overwhelming.
>>> > >
>>> > <<<http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-monsanto-gmo-crops-europe-20130718,0,1502761.story>http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-monsanto-gmo-crops-europe-20130718,0,1502761.story>http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-monsanto-gmo-crops-europe-20130718,0,1502761.story>From
>>> > the L.A. Times:
>>> > > Monsanto Co. said Thursday it will largely drop its bid to grow
>>> > some of its genetically modified crops in Europe. The world's
>>> > largest seed-maker has nine pending applications with the European
>>> > Commission, the executive body for the European Union. A spokesman
>>> > said the company plans to withdraw eight of those applications.
>>> > > The requests "have been going nowhere fast for several years,"
>>> > said Brandon Mitchener, a spokesman for the St. Louis-based
>>> > company's European entity. "There's no end in sight ... due to
>>> > political obstructionism."
>>> > >
>>> > > The European Union's stubborn resistance to transgenic crops
>>> > stands in stark contrast to the
>>> > <<<http://grist.org/news/as-world-marches-against-monsanto-senators-protect-it-from-labeling-laws/>http://grist.org/news/as-world-marches-against-monsanto-senators-protect-it-from-labeling-laws/>http://grist.org/news/as-world-marches-against-monsanto-senators-protect-it-from-labeling-laws/>welcome
>>> > mat rolled out by American lawmakers for agro-giants and their most
>>> > controversial products.
>>> > <<<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23356054>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23356054>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23356054>From
>>> > the BBC:
>>> > > The company said it would now concentrate on growing its
>>> > conventional seeds business in Europe. It will also look to get EU
>>> > approval to import its genetically modified crop varieties from the
>>> > US and South America into Europe.
>>> > > In 2012, Germany's BASF halted the development of genetically
>>> > modified crops in Europe and moved its European research operations
>>> > in this area to the US.
>>> > >
>>> > > Welcome home, corporate industrial science.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
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