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Re: [ronpaul-93] Monsanto / Big Food / Corporatism / Free Market / 2 Short Videos

From: Leigh S.
Sent on: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 1:53 PM
Mike,
 
Labeling doesn't take away anyone's right to choose.  It increases it.  You keep intimating that I want to ban GMO's, which I've never advocated.  I am not trying to take away anyone's right to be self determined.  I just want to know when they deviate from organic, and to make small businesses spend a lot of money ensuring it is organic is not fair, either.  That is what Monsanto and the others have caused.
 
And I do try as much as I can to seek out organic foods.  But without giving up my social life, it is impossible to eat only organic food when I eat out.  But I find it increasingly, because people like myself and many others are asking, and restaurants are obliging.  Look at the organic produce section at Vons.  This is positive, but some of that organic food probably isn't.  That is the scary part.
 
Leigh

In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Truth is treason in the empire of lies. Ron Paul

From: Mike Benoit <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, August 7,[masked]:41 PM
Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] Monsanto / Big Food / Corporatism / Free Market / 2 Short Videos

Leigh, read Bastiat's "The Law" again. Laws are born our of right to defend our lives, and property. Our right to be self determined is our greatest right. You wish to take that away. That is a perversion of law. You act like the GMO foods are forced on you. You act like all the GMO's you consume now will go away with labeling. You consume GMO foods because you don't want to take the time to seek out non gmo's. You think you can violate my right to produce a product and sell it to consumers who want it. You hate force when it is used to fluoridate our water but you don't mind it used against me in the example I gave . Ben hates it when that same force is used to prevent him from getting his whole milk he loves that force used to mandate labels.

Non GMO foods are plentiful and readily available. Have at it and join those who are using them.

There are anarchist and there are authoritarians. Those are opposite ends of the spectrum. I support governing not ruling. Government to govern us through disputes and to use retaliatory force not to initiate force. You are supporting the initiation of force. If you can prove that GMO's are harmful, that people are too stupid to know that themselves, that you have no options to stay away from them, that you and others have a right to force companies like they do with cigarettes to label the packages in such a manner then maybe I would join your tyranny or not.

Leigh, I am sure you shop for non gmo and you ask the restaurants you frequent if they use gmo foods right?


Mike


At 01:17 PM 8/7/2013, you wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Then why did you successfully debate against anarchy a few years ago.  Back then there were a few laws you thought we needed.  Have you changed your mind?
>
> Leigh
>
> In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
>
> Truth is treason in the empire of lies. Ron Paul
>
> From: Mike Benoit <[address removed]>
> To: [address removed]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 6,[masked]:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] Monsanto / Big Food / Corporatism / Free Market / 2 Short Videos
>
> Actually, you are right. The laws don't help. They don't make people more responsible they make them less so in either case.
>
> Mike
>
> At 07:06 AM 8/6/2013, you wrote:
> > I don't think that's what Mike is trying to say. what I'm gathering from your guys' debate is that we have to be careful what laws are used for. because today we have misguided laws with ill intent towards civilians.  Example : IF a gun ban law passes (& they're trying real hard) , how does this protect law abiding peeps from law breaking peeps?? It does not! It protects HLS from law abiding peeps, that's it
> >
> > Sent from my Samsung smartphone on AT&T
> >
> > Leigh Skinner <<mailto:[address removed]>[address removed]> wrote:
> >
> > >Mike,
> > >
> > >
> > >No, we want to hit a lic' against government tyranny by mitigating their form of mandatory labeling by making it more accurate until we can do away with the practice all together. Â You want to let the chemical companies expand their influence even more. Â Rarely is it right to use the law to control others, but that doesn't mean it should never be done. Â That is what a war is, stopping the enemy from advancing. Â We are in a eugenics war and right now the government is winning. Â You want to just stand by the sidelines and let them win this particular conflict. Â As one who went up against the IRS and lost, have lost you will to outwit the government thugs? Â I pick my battles, and this is mine, as it is winnable.
> > >
> > >Â
> > >
> > >Leigh
> > >
> > >In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
> > >
> > >
> > >Truth is treason in the empire of lies. Ron Paul
> > >
> > >
> > >From: Mike Benoit <<mailto:[address removed]>[address removed]>
> > >To: <mailto:[address removed]>[address removed]
> > >Sent: Saturday, August 3,[masked]:23 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] Monsanto / Big Food / Corporatism / Free Market / 2 Short Videos
> > >
> > >
> > >So the answer is less government not more and it is naive at best to think you will win control of a giant government. You want to be in charge of the abuse?
> > >
> > >Mike
> > >
> > >At 07:37 AM 8/3/2013, you wrote:
> > >> Ron Paul is against "corporatism." That is where large corporations control government.
> > >>
> > >> Would you rather have just a few big farms, or a 100,000 small ones?  We know what Monsanto wants.
> > >>
> > >> Monsanto is out to destroy it's competition, using influence in government as an advantage.  If a small farmer has his field polluted with genetically modified organisms, against his wishes - guess what? - he is held civilly liable for "patent infringement."  And our court system has sided with Monsanto.  What is wrong with that picture?
> > >>
> > >> Small Farmers are harassed and persecuted by regulatory agencies much to the glee of "Big Food."  Big corporations don't want competition from local, independent producers with a better product.  They address these concerns by passing regulations that hinder the small independent producer, and they use the media to spread scary ideas (We need GMO's to feed the world.  Labeling will increase food costs tremendously.  Raw Milk is dangerous.  etc.)
> > >>
> > >> The thing we should be scared about is GMOs.  See short portion of the Documentary "Genetic Roulette" below.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> <<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLvxSm2NfRM>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLvxSm2NfRM>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLvxSm2NfRM
> > >>
> > >> If Monsanto is for it, I am against it - Joel Salantin - Successful Libertarian Organic Farmer.
> > >>
> > >> <<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMd7DDWMcF8>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMd7DDWMcF8>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMd7DDWMcF8
> > >>
> > >> See his many videos on sustainable farming on youtube.  He has published many books on the subject.  He has testified before congress and his message seems to ring true.
> > >>
> > >> <<http://wonkistan.com/post/40525848383/joel-salatin-a-self-described>http://wonkistan.com/post/40525848383/joel-salatin-a-self-described>http://wonkistan.com/post/40525848383/joel-salatin-a-self-described
> > >>
> > >> Ben
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> From: Mike Benoit <<mailto:[address removed]>[address removed]>
> > >> To: <mailto:[address removed]>[address removed]
> > >> Sent: Friday, August 2,[masked]:04 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] Monsanto Virtually Gives Up on Growing GMO Crops in Europe
> > >>
> > >> So you want GMOs banned under the name of safety. If someone wants to
> > >> sell me a product and I want to buy it then it is none of your
> > >> business and you have no right to mandate that they label their product.
> > >>
> > >> You make the same argument the gun grabbers make. "we only want
> > >> reasonable legislation" yet when something is banned they cheer from
> > >> the roof top.
> > >>
> > >> Mike
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> At 01:42 PM 8/2/2013, you wrote:
> > >> >Mike,
> > >> >
> > >> >You fought against Prop 37 to label GMO's, which would have put us
> > >> >in the position of Monsanto leaving this country eventually like
> > >> >they did recently in Europe.  Then the Libertarian answer to
> > >> >defeating GMO's was to lead a protest against them in Balboa Park a
> > >> >month or two after the prop was defeated.  How did that go, by the
> > >> >way?  Was Monsanto quaking in their shoes?
> > >> >
> > >> >Over 600 million people in Europe signed a petition supporting
> > >> >health freedom and against tyranny. Our government is socialist, but
> > >> >you and I and many other Americans aren't.  Same in Europe.  Since
> > >> >when is informing the public considered tyranny?  Seems to be
> > >> >liberating to me.  Now the EU is gradually patenting natural
> > >> >supplements like Folic Acid and raw produce like broccoli, so that
> > >> >is the continent's next battle.  Sounds like tyranny to me,
> > >> >Mike.  You need to chill out on what you consider tyranny.  The IRS
> > >> >and the NSA and the Fed, yes.  Informing people like me that there
> > >> >is fluordated water, or GMO's, or any other dangerous chemical in
> > >> >food is for 500 million Americans. Liberty to swing my arms ends
> > >> >where your nose begins, doesn't it?
> > >> >
> > >> >Leigh
> > >> >
> > >> >In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary
> > >> >act. George Orwell
> > >> >
> > >> >Truth is treason in the empire of lies. Ron Paul
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >From: Mike Benoit <<mailto:[address removed]><mailto:[address removed]>[address removed]>
> > >> >To: <mailto:[address removed]>[address removed]
> > >> >Sent: Monday, July 22,[masked]:48 PM
> > >> >Subject: Re: [ronpaul-93] Monsanto Virtually Gives Up on Growing GMO
> > >> >Crops in Europe
> > >> >
> > >> >A missed opportunity for tyranny. Lets all look to socialist Europe
> > >> >for what to do.
> > >> >
> > >> >Mike
> > >> >
> > >> >At 01:32 PM 7/22/2013, you wrote:
> > >> > > My sister sent me this bit of news.  Europe has had mandatory
> > >> > labeling and has been opposing GMO's for years, and it seems to
> > >> > have worked without pesky lawsuits or hurting any businesses.  This
> > >> > could have happened in this country if California's prop 37 had
> > >> > passed. A missed opportunity.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Leigh
> > >> > >
> > >> > > In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a
> > >> > revolutionary act. George Orwell
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Truth is treason in the empire of lies. Ron Paul
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Monsanto Virtually Gives Up on Growing GMO Crops in Europe
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > By John Upton, Grist
> > >> > > 20 July 13
> > >> > >
> > >> > > []
> > >> > > onsanto has pretty much given up any hope (at least for now) of
> > >> > selling its genetically engineered seeds for corn, sugar beets, and
> > >> > other crops in Europe, where opposition to GMO food is overwhelming.
> > >> > >
> > >> > <<<<http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-monsanto-gmo-crops-europe-20130718,0,1502761.story>http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-monsanto-gmo-crops-europe-20130718,0,1502761.story>http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-monsanto-gmo-crops-europe-20130718,0,1502761.story>http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-monsanto-gmo-crops-europe-20130718,0,1502761.story>From
> > >> > the L.A. Times:
> > >> > > Monsanto Co. said Thursday it will largely drop its bid to grow
> > >> > some of its genetically modified crops in Europe. The world's
> > >> > largest seed-maker has nine pending applications with the European
> > >> > Commission, the executive body for the European Union. A spokesman
> > >> > said the company plans to withdraw eight of those applications.
> > >> > > The requests "have been going nowhere fast for several years,"
> > >> > said Brandon Mitchener, a spokesman for the St. Louis-based
> > >> > company's European entity. "There's no end in sight ... due to
> > >> > political obstructionism."
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The European Union's stubborn resistance to transgenic crops
> > >> > stands in stark contrast to the
> > >> > <<<<http://grist.org/news/as-world-marches-against-monsanto-senators-protect-it-from-labeling-laws/>http://grist.org/news/as-world-marches-against-monsanto-senators-protect-it-from-labeling-laws/>http://grist.org/news/as-world-marches-against-monsanto-senators-protect-it-from-labeling-laws/>http://grist.org/news/as-world-marches-against-monsanto-senators-protect-it-from-labeling-laws/>welcome
> > >> > mat rolled out by American lawmakers for agro-giants and their most
> > >> > controversial products.
> > >> > <<<<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23356054>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23356054>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23356054>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23356054>From
> > >> > the BBC:
> > >> > > The company said it would now concentrate on growing its
> > >> > conventional seeds business in Europe. It will also look to get EU
> > >> > approval to import its genetically modified crop varieties from the
> > >> > US and South America into Europe.
> > >> > > In 2012, Germany's BASF halted the development of genetically
> > >> > modified crops in Europe and moved its European research operations
> > >> > in this area to the US.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Welcome home, corporate industrial science.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --
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> > >> >
> > >> >Michael Benoit
> > >> >Ron Paul for President
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> > >> >Set my mailing list to email me
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> > >> >daily email |
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> > >>
> > >> Michael Benoit
> > >> Ron Paul for President
> > >> <<http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/>http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/>http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/
> > >>
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> > >>
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> > >Michael Benoit
> > >Ron Paul for President
> > ><http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/>http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/
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> > >              Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | <mailto:[address removed]>[address removed] 
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> > This message was sent by Andrea Bacon (<mailto:[address removed]>[address removed]) from Ron Paul for President 2012 San Diego County.
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> > Set my mailing list to email me
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> > Don't send me mailing list messages
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> > Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | <mailto:[address removed]>[address removed]
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> > -----
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>
> Michael Benoit
> Ron Paul for President
> <http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/>http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/
>
>
>
> --
> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list (<mailto:[address removed]>[address removed])
> http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/
> This message was sent by Mike Benoit (<mailto:[address removed]>[address removed]) from Ron Paul for President 2012 San Diego County.
> To learn more about Mike Benoit, visit his/her member profile: <http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/members/1364434/>http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/members/1364434/
> Set my mailing list to email me
>
> As they are sent
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> In one daily email
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>
> Don't send me mailing list messages
> <http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/list_prefs/?pref=0>http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/list_prefs/?pref=0
> Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | <mailto:[address removed]>[address removed]
>
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>
> --
> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list (<mailto:[address removed]>[address removed])
> This message was sent by Leigh Skinner ([address removed]) from <http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/>Ron Paul for President 2012 San Diego County.
> To learn more about Leigh Skinner, visit his/her <http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/members/4583317/>member profile
> Set my mailing list to email me <http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/list_prefs/?pref=1>As they are sent | <http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/list_prefs/?pref=2>In one daily email | <http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/list_prefs/?pref=0>Don't send me mailing list messages
>
> Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]
> []
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>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com/>www.avg.com
> Version:[masked] / Virus Database: 3209/6557 - Release Date: 08/06/13

Michael Benoit
Ron Paul for President
http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/



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Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/
This message was sent by Mike Benoit ([address removed]) from Ron Paul for President 2012 San Diego County.
To learn more about Mike Benoit, visit his/her member profile: http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-93/members/1364434/
Set my mailing list to email me

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