Re: can't argue with a turkey. Re: [ronpaul-50] Thanksgiving Persuasion - a key to victory

From: Russell W.
Sent on: Saturday, November 24, 2007 6:13 PM
On Nov 24,[masked]:53 PM, Louis Charles <[address removed]> wrote:
>
> Politics is usually taboo, so be polite and respectful. NEVER argue. You
> don't win votes by arguing. You entrench people in their positions by
> arguing.
> *************
>
> really?
>
> and what experience in this realm do you have to evidence backing such
> proclamation, sir?

From what I can tell, Louis, Avery has a _lot_ of experience.

> Perhaps you simply are not adept at debate, persuasion
> nor salesmanship.  How long have you been involved in politics, Avery Knapp?
>

He seems adept enough at salesmanship from what I can tell.

> I'm not saying that arguing works with everyone, but please be decent enough
> to admit that there are many people, whereas if you don't get into an
> argument over something which they are passionate about, you never get the
> chance to reach them -- you allow them to ignore something which might
> ultimately allow us to be jailed in a gulag or worse.
>

I think you missed Avery's point entirely: he seems to me to be simply
urging his friends and fellow travelers to be *civil at dinner* with their
families.  People often forget this guideline.

> You people just don't get the gravity of the war we are in, do you?

Uh, no, otherwise we'd not be supporting Ron Paul, now would we?

> ...nor
> the ruthlessness and prowess of our New World Order fascist/socialist
> adversaries, huh?
>

Funny, I always thought of government functionaries as mostly people
who don't have the competence to obtain honest jobs in private industry.
I don't attribute to "prowess" any behavior I've seen better explained by
rent seeking, public choice economics, and welfare state vote brokering.

Black helicopters aren't necessary, and mentioning them makes
libertarians look... silly.

RW

> LC
>
> "Avery J. Knapp Jr." <[address removed]> wrote:
> 1. Happy Thanksgiving! Thank your parents for your life and thank Ron for
> fighting for your freedom.
>
> 2. Thanksgiving Persuasion - a key to victory (detailed).
> Most of us will be having Thanksgiving with family and friends.
>
> Politics is usually taboo, so be polite and respectful. NEVER argue. You
> don't win votes by arguing. You entrench people in their positions by
> arguing.
>
> The plan:
>
> 1. Choose slimjims that will appeal to each person. If they're a gun-person,
> give them a gun slimjim. If they're church-going Christian, print out Dr.
> Paul's statement of faith. Choose Republican or Democrat slimjim depending
> on your audience. Give them the slimjim after dinner and DON'T ARGUE.
>
> 2. Rules for persuasion:
> a. be nice, polite, don't argue.
> b. Fill their need (listen to what they want, then empathize). Don't give
> facts.
> c. Recommend the candidate, and ask for their vote/support.
> d. Say things that the person wants to hear (they're probably not involved
> in politics, don't care much about issues that you do [the Constitution,
> gold standard, NWO, ect.]. In other words, assume they're just an average
> Joe and don't know or care anything about politics. Speak in generalities,
> then tailor your message once you know how they stand. Ask what the 3 most
> important issues are to them individually, and address their need.
>
>
> 3. Subjects likely to come up
> a. Oil/gas prices - talk about some economists think Oil would be $20
> cheaper per barrel if we hadn't been in this mess in Iraq. Only one credible
> and consistent candidate who thinks its time to bring the troops home.
> b. Healtcare - Dr. Paul is the only Doctor running, either Republican or
> Democrat.
>
>
> Potential attacks:
> 1. "Ron Paul is crazy" - AGREE WITH THE PERSON! "Yes, he's a nut. Anyone who
> would opt out of lucrative Congressional Pension plan has got to be crazy.
> If I were in Congress, I would have taken advantage of the taxpayer and got
> the Congressional Pension. And Dr. Paul has never taken a taxpayer-paid
> congressional junket. His wife must think he's crazy too, and kick him, for
> not taking advantage of this like other members of congress do."
>
> 2. "___ is the most conservative candidate. " Yes, ____ is a conservative
> candidate, and I'm glad he's in the race. I'm just really glad that Dr. Paul
> never voted for pabortion funding[. Didn't _____ vote for [abortion funding]
> one time. This is where you need to know your facts about the other
> candidates.
>
> 3. "_____ has the only chance of winning." - Ron Paul is trading at 9% on
> intrade, a prediction market, and has better odds of winning than Fred
> Thompson and John McCain according to Vegas oddsmakers. And he is going up
> in the polls dramatically and the other candidates are going down. Plus, he
> raised a record $4.3 million in 24 hours. That's $3000 per minute.
>
> 4. "Ron Paul wants to desert our troops." Do you honestly think that a man
> who served his country in the Air Force, treated injured soldiers fighting
> for our country and freedoms in Congress for 30 years really wants to desert
> our troops? Ron Paul loves his military brothers, and is working to save
> their lives. He has also received more donations from the military than any
> other candidate
>
> 5. "Ron Paul blamed us for 9-11"
> a. What Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaida did was evil and reprehensible and they
> are totally responsible. They should be caught and punished to the full
> extent of the law.
> b. Ron Paul believes 100% in a strong national defense
> c. Ron Paul also believes we can better defend our country by securing our
> borders here than securing Iraq's borders.
>
>
> Things to avoid talking about (generally) - 9/11 truth, NWO, bilderburgers,
> gold standard,
>
> Things to suggest if they're traditional Republican
> 1. Consistent Record
> 2. Traditional Republican Foreign Policy ( no nation building, no policing
> the world, running on the foreign policy that GWB had when he won the
> Presidency.)
> 3. Fiscal Conservative
> 4. Pro-life
>
> Things to suggest if they're Democrat/Independent­
> 1. Only candidate to bring the troops home (Hillary and Dems want to keep
> troops in Iraq indefinitely); good judgment to vote against Iraq War
> 2. Statements to differentiate Dr. Paul from Bush
> 3. Strong on Health Care, education, Habeus Corpus, 1st amendment
>
> Even better yet, bring your laptop and show them one of these videos:
> http://www.youtub...­ "A New Hope"
> http://www.youtub...­ - Reagan Debate clips
>
>
> If they like Dr. Paul, tell them about Dec. 16 and ask them to donate $10 or
> $20 or more today or on Dec. 16. Get their email address and follow up! And
> ask for their vote!
>
>
>
>
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> This message was sent by Avery J. Knapp Jr. ([address removed]) from
> Greater NYC Ron Paul Action Group Manhattan+.
> To learn more about Avery J. Knapp Jr., visit his/her member profile
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>  ____________________­____________
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>
>  --
>  Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
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>  This message was sent by Louis Charles ([address removed]) from Greater
> NYC Ron Paul Action Group Manhattan+.
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-- 
Russell Whitaker
http://www.surviv...­

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