Re: [php-49] MVC: Does, Don'ts, and Tips

From: Eric H.
Sent on: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:22 PM
I like that Mark. I think that is a great suggestion.

-- Eric

Sr. Software Engineer
ZCE ~ Zend Certified Engineer


On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Mark Steudel <[address removed]> wrote:
If I were you I'd say start with a framework. IMO I think it's better
to learn from the work of those that have more experience than you do
and I think starting out with a framework is a good way to do that.

If you have the luxury, pick 3 or 4 frameworks and try and implement
the same code in each. One of those will probably be more to your
style than the others.  If after that you're like "I can do something
better" you at least have a solid reference point from which to start.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Kris Craig <[address removed]> wrote:
> Eric,
>
> I realize I represent a minority viewpoint on this, but for whatever it's
> worth I've been a PHP developer for over 10 years and a programmer in
> general since the age of 12.  So I hope my thoughts on this will at least
> factor into the discussion at some point.  ;)
>
> That said, I disagree with the notion that you have to use a framework in
> order to use MVC.  Did you have a chance to review my previous email?  You
> can easily develop using your own MVC architecture without relying on a
> framework.  In fact, if you do it right, you can easily makes yours
> better compliant with MVC standards.  Frameworks can be helpful (I'm in the
> process of developing my own in fact), but I personally tend to think that
> people rely on them a little too heavily.  Reinventing the wheel is one
> thing, but becoming utterly dependent on somebody else's code is another.
>  If you want to grow as a PHP developer, you need to write your own stuff.
>
> The framework I'm developing, btw, will use a unique "modular" approach not
> seen in existing frameworks, meaning it can be as heavy- or light-weight as
> you want it to be; use it out of the box or just plug the bits in to your
> existing code.  Of course, release is a LONG way off.  My point is, yes the
> frameworks that are out there are needlessly bulky IMHO (it's not just
> you!), but no it is not an inherent necessity that frameworks be like that.
>  At least, that's what I'm hoping to prove lol.
>
>
> But to summarize, if you really want to learn MVC architecture, write your
> own!  Refer to the basic outline in my previous email to get you started.  I
> have yet to see a framework that has an MVC implementation as complaint and
> interoperable as the one I described.
>
> --Kris
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Keith Grey <[address removed]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hey Eric,
>>
>> I was like you up until 4 months ago when I started a new full time job
>> where I had to design a whole new application from the ground up.  After
>> doing some research and hearing about "frameworks" from this email list
>> mostly, I decided to give it a try.  I also had several job interviews
>> last year where I was asked questions about "MVC".  Up until this point, I
>> had handled most programming chores with a few included function files and
>> no objects.  I finally decided on the "Yii" framework.  It wasn't easy at
>> first adjusting to using the system and changing my thinking to using OO
>> design, but I finally did it .  At one point after trying for a few days,
>> I was willing to chuck it all and go back to the old way ... I felt like
>> Neo in the first Matrix Movie where Trinity tells him as he's about to get
>> out of the car: "You've been down that road before Neo - you know where it
>> leads."  I decided to stick with it and I've been pretty happy working
>> within the Yii framework so far.  Time to develop is cut substantially and
>> I love the way I can just design the database and a lot of the "crud" work
>> is done for me automatically.  I still hack things up and put some display
>> code in the models (tables and reports mostly) so the functions can be
>> called as a complete unit instead of lots of little functions.  This is
>> not correct according to the hard-core mvc people, but for me it makes for
>> really clean view code.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Keith G.
>>
>>
>> > Eric Harris
>> > Hey All,
>> >
>> > I am trying to wrap my head around using MVC. I understand the
>> > principals
>> > of it, but I am finding it harder to implement. And from what I have
>> > always
>> > heard, this is one of those items that when it clicks it clicks, but
>> > until
>> > it does you are just banging away.
>> >
>> > The project I am working on, is well suited for using MVC. I have always
>> > shied away from using frameworks and that is typically how the company I
>> > work rolls. More of a mentality of: if you can write it, why use someone
>> > elses.
>> >
>> > Anyone have some suggested Does, Don'ts, and perhaps some tips?
>> >
>> > -- Eric
>> >
>> > Sr. Software Engineer
>> > ZCE ~ Zend Certified Engineer
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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