You'll get invited to our Meetups as soon as they're scheduled!
| Subject | Sender | Date |
|---|---|---|
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - Ian, Thanks! I have now doubt about the stability of 1.9.1, and most of my eventmachine daemons run quite well on it in development. Its moving Rails apps over that I am cautious about. | Lon Baker | Dec 4, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - Preview not available | Ian Smith-Heisters | Dec 4, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - Preview not available | Ian Smith-Heisters | Dec 4, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - Raul, The process model for concurrency (i.e. forking new processes) is quite usable. People gravitate to threads for some reason, but threads aren't rea | Adrien Lamothe | Dec 4, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - Adrien: we don't use cron; we needed periodic tasks (to communicate with firmware controlling solar cells) with very accurate precision. So: a) we wrote our own scheduler and daemons b) we did no | Raul Parolari | Dec 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - Have you looked at god? Sounds like a good fit: | Steve Fogel | Dec 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - Sounds like the issues weren't with RVM, right? How long have you used it? | Steve Fogel | Dec 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - Al - Thanks, I did look into it the other day and that is definitely an option I like, if it works. | Steve Fogel | Dec 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - nom. G On Dec 3, 2009, at 8:32 PM, Mason wrote: > Don't feed the trolls. > > mason > > On Dec 3, 2009, at 7:11 PM, Lon Baker wrote: > >> Really? Very helpful. >> >> Lon >> >> On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 22:02 -0500, William T Nelson w | Grant Goodale | Dec 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - Don't feed the trolls. mason On Dec 3, 2009, at 7:11 PM, Lon Baker wrote: > Really? Very helpful. > > Lon > > On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 22:02 -0500, William T Nelson wrote: >> noob > > > > > -- > Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", you | Mason | Dec 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - I also run some Ruby scripts as cron jobs and daemons; currently using Ruby 1.8.7 and experiencing memory leaks. Sounds like I should run those scripts with Rub | Adrien Lamothe | Dec 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - Preview not available | Lon Baker | Dec 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - Adrien: a) we use Rails and all gems with Ruby 1.8.7. b) we use our own software (automation, network comm daemons, etc) with Ruby 1.9.1, without using any gems. The problems found were just the expected one | Raul Parolari | Dec 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 20:47, Lon Baker wrote: > Hola! > How many people are running 1.9.1 in production? > I have been considering making the move, but am nervous about managing > multiple versions and http://isitruby19.com is | William T Nelson | Dec 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - I've been reading about authlogic not working with Ruby 1.9 and also Rails problems in general with Ruby 1.9. I'd like to use Ruby 1.9 with Rails 2.3.5 and auth | Adrien Lamothe | Dec 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - Hola! How many people are running 1.9.1 in production? I have been considering making the move, but am nervous about managing multiple versions and http://isitruby19.com is o | Lon Baker | Dec 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - I second the opinion above from Al: a) we have Rails with Ruby 1.8.7, but needed Ruby 1.9.1 for all other parts of the system. b) we installed rvm (on a tip from Rob Nicodotti) and ruby 1.9.1 in both our devel | Raul Parolari | Dec 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - Going off in a completely different direction: look into RVM, the Ruby version manager project. Al On Dec 3, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Steve Fogel < | Al Chou | Dec 3, 2009 |
| question about managin multiple versions of ruby in production - Hi All! I've got a product | Steve Fogel | Dec 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Need 5 RubyConf Tickets - On 11/30/09 9:32 PM, Leah Culver wrote: > Be careful what you wish for! The pink pony is the semi-official mascot > of the Django Python web framework: http://djangopony.com/ Cute pony. No rainbows, though. Bummer. ;] --j | Jim | Nov 30, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Need 5 RubyConf Tickets - Be careful what you wish for! The pink pony is the semi-official mascot of the Django Python web framework: http://djangopony.com/ On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Ben Curren | Leah Culver | Nov 30, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Need 5 RubyConf Tickets - Preview not available | dylan | Nov 30, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Need 5 RubyConf Tickets - that is awesome! congrats! On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Ben Curren < [address removed] > wrote: | dru | Nov 30, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Need 5 RubyConf Tickets - So, I was able to pick up 5 RubyConf tickets and 1 pony with wings and rainbows. As promised, here is picture proof. | Ben Curren | Nov 30, 2009 |
|
[ANN] "RDF on Rails", 12/15, UC Berkeley - "RDF on Rails", Dean Allemang and Rich Morin
The East Bay Ruby Meetup Group
http://ruby.meetup.com/81/cale |
Rich Morin | Nov 29, 2009 |
| 2010 Fukuoka Ruby Award Competition (Application Deadline Extended) - Preview not available | Makoto Abe | Nov 23, 2009 |
|
Re: [ruby-6] Iframe and IE nightmare... - A bit off topic, but if you need IE browsers or others to test with,
this is the site to get all current browsers sandboxed ( Windows only
) :
http://www.spoon.net/browsers/ |
farid aliev | Nov 18, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Iframe and IE nightmare... - Preview not available | Jon Bardin | Nov 18, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Iframe and IE nightmare... - Got it working!! It was silly. IE had cached up links to block the privacy settings for, I found out the links that had their cookies blocked by clicking on the "eye" in the status bar. Long story short, just cle | sugam | Nov 18, 2009 |
|
Re: [ruby-6] Iframe and IE nightmare... - This usually works just fine for me:
http://finalbuilds.edskes.net/ |
Giao Phan | Nov 18, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Iframe and IE nightmare... - Your gonna want to make sure you test IE 6 and 7 as well. MS has downloadable vm's with those browsers available somewhere on their site. Mike On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 10:07 AM, sugam wrote: > Didnt work :-/ > Btw, I am | Mike Abner | Nov 18, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Iframe and IE nightmare... - I'd fire up a sniffer and confirm the header is being emitted in all relevant situations. if it is, then your problem lies | Jordan Ritter | Nov 18, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Iframe and IE nightmare... - Didnt work :-/ Btw, I am using IE 8.0.6001 ... On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Jordan Ritter < [address removed] > wrote: | sugam | Nov 18, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Iframe and IE nightmare... - I use the following and it works for me: # | Jordan Ritter | Nov 18, 2009 |
| Iframe and IE nightmare... - Hi folks, I have been trying to use facebook connect on my site and use iframes in my facebook app. Everythings nice and pretty on safari and firefox, but as expected IE wont stop haunting me with an iframe sessions issue. B | sugam | Nov 18, 2009 |
| Need a RubyConf ticket - does anyone have a spare one? - I've posted this on the East Bay meetup as well. If you have one for me, please call me at [masked]. Thanks! JB -- Nearly Random: http:/ | JohnB | Nov 17, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] rails/ruby contracts at my startup - Hello Dan I would like to help you out if y | Janos Mucsi | Nov 16, 2009 |
| Rails contract project - I'm looking for a rails developer for a 5-6 month project starting in early January. (I'm also looking for a good local sysadmin if anyone knows one) The site in question is a popular higher education site. We will be aggregating large data sets f | Geoff | Nov 16, 2009 |
| FYI- talk on Plack (Perl-based Rack), 11/24, SF - The San Francisco Perl Users' Group Plack - Modern Perl Framework Superglue Tatsuhiko Miyagawa will be presenting a talk on Plack on Tuesday November 24th, 7pm at Six Apart World Headquarters. Plack is a set of PSGI reference server implementati | Rich Morin | Nov 16, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Ruby & Computer Music, Bay Area Computer Music Technology Meetup - Techno music used to be called Computer Music (Kraftwerk). Thorp is going even deeper - Code Music. I can't wait. - Dominic Son Cell: (408) 569-9617 Twitter.com/deezzer On Wed, Nov 11 | Dominic Son | Nov 14, 2009 |
| Re: Re: [ruby-6] Need 5 RubyConf Tickets - Anyone have one extra rubyconf ticket? I thought I was going to be busy but my schedule cleared up and would love to go. *begs* :) Sincerely, John Wilkinson | John Wilkinson | Nov 11, 2009 |
| Ruby & Computer Music, Bay Area Computer Music Technology Meetup - Ruby & Computer Music, Bay Area Computer Music Technology Meetup November 20, 2009 7:00 PM, hosted by ashburymusichall.com (Pier 38), Embarcadero @ Townsend, SF Since Rubyconf is in San Francisco this year, the Bay Area Computer Music Technology Gro | Noah Thorp | Nov 11, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Need 5 RubyConf Tickets - When I get 5 RubyConf tickets I'll take a picture and post them here. I already picked up 3 so 2 more doesn't seem like a stretch. If I happen to find any ponies with wings that pee rainbows I'll let Alex and Josh | Ben Curren | Nov 10, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] zendesk as next venue? bosco are you around? - Yup, I just resurfaced. Am juggling next week's Meetup. Will contact Zendesk re details. -- B On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 5:29 PM, barce < [address removed] > w | Bosco So | Nov 6, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Need 5 RubyConf Tickets - WTB 5 ponies please DM @alexch also!!! must have wings and pee rainbows On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Josh Susser wrote: > 5 tickets? Yeah, and they come with a pony too! > On Nov 6, 2009, at 3:58 PM, Ben Curren wrote | Alex | Nov 6, 2009 |
|
Re: [ruby-6] Need 5 RubyConf Tickets - What's kind of sad for adults is that most ponies have a weight limit of ~60lbs.
http://www.ponyupfun.com/ponie |
Rafi Jacoby | Nov 6, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Need 5 RubyConf Tickets - 5 tickets? Yeah, and they come with a pony too! On Nov 6, 2009, at 3:58 PM, Ben Curren wrote: | Josh Susser | Nov 6, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] zendesk as next venue? bosco are you around? - Preview not available | Curits Schofield | Nov 6, 2009 |
| zendesk as next venue? bosco are you around? - Hey Folks, Zendesk would definitely be interested in hosting the next meetup. Bosco are you around? Or does someone else want to coordinate talkers for Tuesday? Cheers, Barce | barce | Nov 6, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Need 5 RubyConf Tickets - Chris, let's do 5:30 even 5:40/ seems like i am running late... sorry --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Ben Curren <[address removed]> wrote: | Sasha Supra-Zhenko | Nov 6, 2009 |
| Need 5 RubyConf Tickets - I'm trying to pickup 5 RubyConf tickets. Anybody have extra tickets they'd like to sell? Can't believe I missed the extra 24 tickets from a couple days ago. Ben Curren | Ben Curren | Nov 6, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] [OT] Mobile Orchard iPhone/OpenGL class - Preview not available | Dan Grigsby | Nov 5, 2009 |
| UI Developer -- Top Company. Cool culture. Opportunity. - | Marta Daglow | Nov 3, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Recently funded startup in SF seeking Ruby Developer - Preview not available | Charles | Nov 3, 2009 |
| Recently funded startup in SF seeking Ruby Developer - | Donald James | Nov 3, 2009 |
|
Ruby mobile app development - As some of you know from previous presentations to this group, we make the open source Rhodes smartphone app framework ( http://github.com/rhomobile/rh |
Adam Blum | Oct 26, 2009 |
| 2010 Fukuoka Ruby Award Competition (Enter Now to Win 1 Million Yen!) - Preview not available | Makoto Abe | Oct 24, 2009 |
| Rails Outreach Workshop - webcast tomorrow - There's a Rails Outreach Workshop in Boston tomorrow, patterned after the ones we've done here. It's being live webcast! So if you've been thinking about being a TA or a teacher, check out what it's like. It starts at (ugh) 7am pacific and runs until | Sarah Mei | Oct 16, 2009 |
| defunkt on irc can you share ops on #sfruby on irc.freenode.org - Hey Folks, Sorry to spam the list. defunkt, are you reading this? Can you share ops on #sfruby on irc.freenode.org ? We're thinking of directing more folks in there for those that want real-time chat help. Happy Friday! Cheers, Barce | barce | Oct 16, 2009 |
| [OT] Mobile Orchard iPhone/OpenGL class - Preview not available | Dan Grigsby | Oct 16, 2009 |
| Looking for a ruby developer - Hey Everybody, Looking for a ruby developer, and was hoping somebody here might be interested or know somebody. Background: We are a digital media firm that has been running for going on 5 years. We work predominantly with 3D content creatio | John | Oct 16, 2009 |
| Re: rails/ruby contracts at my startup - sorry about the repost ... it seemed to bounce back on me. don't worry i wont send a followup apologizing about the apology. On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Dan Newman < | Dan Newman | Oct 15, 2009 |
| rails/ruby contracts at my startup - hey railsologists and ruby-ites - the conversation platform i started about 9 months ago is now in private alpha and we have some initial angel funds. we'll be raising more in the next few weeks - but have a high priority need right now for | Dan Newman | Oct 15, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Try Rails - A Try Ruby on Steroids Idea - I see your point, you definitely don't want the excitement to wane. My thinking is that rails 3 is the new architecture, so why not wait for it. But since it is | Adrien Lamothe | Oct 10, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Try Rails - A Try Ruby on Steroids Idea - Adrien, I am curious why you suggest waiting for Rails 3 to be released and using that. What is it about Rails 3 that will make this project different or easier to execute? I think it is best to get going on this project now. By the time Rai | Rob Olson | Oct 10, 2009 |
|
Thanks for coming to Git For Newbies! - What I'm learning about the SFRuby crowd is that newbie is a relative
term. A Git Newbie can be me a programming newbie (me) or an
I've-been-using-Subversio |
Michael Pope | Oct 9, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Why wouldn't you use Erector? - On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Mark Wilden wrote: > On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Alex Wayne wrote: > >> First thing I noticed is that you were doing logic (creating local variables >> and changing their | Alex | Oct 9, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Try Rails - A Try Ruby on Steroids Idea - Now that is an idea that I love. -Alex On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Alex < [address removed] > wrote: | Alex Wayne | Oct 9, 2009 |
|
Re: [ruby-6] Try Rails - A Try Ruby on Steroids Idea - I'd like someday to make an online interactive version of our
Test-First Teaching materials.
http://github.com/ultrasaurus/ |
Alex | Oct 9, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Try Rails - A Try Ruby on Steroids Idea - I think you should wait until Rails 3 is released and use that version as your baseline. --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Eric Cranston <cracell@gmail.c | Adrien Lamothe | Oct 9, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Why wouldn't you use Erector? - I have a somewhat similar view. I've only be skimming this thread, but what I've read so far seems to be touting Erector mostly as a way just to eliminate HTML from view files. To be perfectly honest, whenever some new tool comes out for writin | Jeff Hunter | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Why wouldn't you use Erector? - I'm interested to know people's hesitation of adopting hquery ( demo , example ) t | Choon Keat Chew | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Why wouldn't you use Erector? - Call me old fashioned, but I really don't see a problem with expressing my views as HTML + Ruby. My bigger problem is dealing with HTML + Ruby + Javascript... or even worse HTML + Ruby + Javascript + prototype or JQuery + OpenLaszlo or Flash. T | Sarah Allen | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Try Rails - A Try Ruby on Steroids Idea - So I've had this idea floating around in my head for a while but I'm not sure how to make it feasible and so thought, why not find the thoughts of the community and this board seemed as good as any to post on. I'm sure most of you a | Eric Cranston | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Why wouldn't you use Erector? - On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Alex Wayne wrote: > Here is something of a comparison I just put up with this example: > http://gist.github.com/205579 Nice! > First thing I noticed is that you were doing logic (creating l | Alex | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] escaping system cmd - Yeh I was using the bash shell (I think) I tried a couple of tricks to determine the shell and they didn't work from a system call within irb (any solid way to do that would be greatly appreciated I tried ps -p $$ but for some reason the CMD colu | stewart | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] escaping system cmd - I'm pretty sure it uses /bin/sh by default regardless of the value in $SHELL. Try system("csh", "-c", "echo test >>& | Jeff Hunter | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Why wouldn't you use Erector? - On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Alex Wayne wrote: > First thing I noticed is that you were doing logic (creating local variables > and changing their value) in the same place you were generating the HTML. > Now no matter wh | Mark Wilden | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] escaping system cmd - Thanks again. I was assuming that ruby would run it in the shell defined by $SHELL.... I need to check whether or not this is the case. I haven't been able to verify this. If not I suspect I can force the cs | stewart | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Why wouldn't you use Erector? - Here is something of a comparison I just put up with this example: http://gist.github.com/205579 First thing I noticed is that you were doing logic (creating local variables and chan | Alex Wayne | Oct 8, 2009 |
|
Re: [ruby-6] Why wouldn't you use Erector? - On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Alex wrote:
>
> Erector:
>
> div :class => "list" do
> ul do
> @items.each do |item|
> classes = ["item", item.state]
> if item.interesting_to?(@current_ |
Mark Wilden | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] escaping system cmd - Preview not available | Ian Fischer | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] escaping system cmd - > It complains of unexpected token '&'. You are probably escaping it properly, the shell is probably complaining as that isn't valid syntax. system ("echo test >> my.file 2>&1") Will do what you want (2>&1 says redirect fd 2, which is stderr to | Joe Kalash | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] escaping system cmd - Thanks Barce and Sam. I'm using csh which doesn't seem to like the syntax below. (Which I don't fully understand and need to look up.) I assume 2>&1 redirects stderr to stdout?!? | stewart | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] escaping system cmd - You might also want to use tee instead of >> and > b/c a lot of accidental over-writing can happen with >. % man tee % echo test | tee -a my.file 2>&1 or in your ruby code: results = %x[echo test | tee -a my.file 2>&1] ymmv, barce On | barce | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] escaping system cmd - system("echo test > my.file 2>&1") assuming bash or sh are your system shell | Sam | Oct 8, 2009 |
| escaping system cmd - Does anyone happen to know how to escape >>& in a ruby system command.. My goal is to redirect everything to the file including stderr. While repeating a set of cmd's I run in a shell. | stewart | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Why wouldn't you use Erector? - > I'm currently using Haml, and I have to admit that its conciseness is a plus. > > In Erector: > > div :class => 'foo' do > end > > In Haml: > > .foo Sure! And if all your markup is that simple, then definitely use HAML (Haml?). But what doe | Alex | Oct 8, 2009 |
|
Re: [ruby-6] Why wouldn't you use Erector? - On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Alex wrote:
>
> http://pivotallabs.com/users/a |
Mark Wilden | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Why wouldn't you use Erector? - That looks cool. I've always thought that the views/template portion have always been the weakest part of Rails (at least when it comes to managing reuse). I could imagine using this instead of relying on Cells (to get away from partials). Kind o | Juris | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Why wouldn't you use Erector? - That does look pretty cool, and I like the idea of a view as an object. I would guess that inheritance would make nested layouts pretty easy, which hasn't always been the case with Rails. I might try it with my next project. I&# | Alex Wayne | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] Why wouldn't you use Erector? - We actually did look at Erector, and our reason for not using it is perhaps temporary. We're in the process of moving to Ruby/Rails from Perl for our system, and the team is coming up to speed on Rails. We wanted to keep things purposely fairly vanilla | Mason Jones | Oct 8, 2009 |
| Why wouldn't you use Erector? - I just posted a blog article posing the question, "Why wouldn't you use Erector?" And I'd be very interested in hearing people's answers to this question even if I weren't the primary coder on Erector these days. HTML View technology is so clunky, even | Alex | Oct 8, 2009 |
| UI Developers at the mid and senior levels - Preview not available | Marta Daglow | Oct 7, 2009 |
| Looking for a Senior Ruby on Rails developer - San Francisco (soma) - Hi all, I am looking for a Senior Ruby on Rails developer who is a "rock star". Has web development experience including Ruby on Rails, PHP and Web Services. Salary range is rather high for the right person. A technical degree is preferr | Anthony Goeree | Oct 7, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] configuring inbound email for a heroku app and hosted gmail - I'm not worried about outgoing emails, it's really just trying to get the single email working again. Here's the reply I got from heroku: Hey, You need to change to use A Records for the root domain instead of a CNA | daniel pennypacker | Oct 7, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] configuring inbound email for a heroku app and hosted gmail - Preview not available | Seth Ladd | Oct 7, 2009 |
|
Re: [ruby-6] configuring inbound email for a heroku app and hosted gmail - This is the easy way to do gmail MX on godaddy:
https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop |
Harlan | Oct 7, 2009 |
| Re: [ruby-6] configuring inbound email for a heroku app and hosted gmail - I've actually found GoDaddy (and Network Solutions for that matter) to be so frustrating to work with that I move all DNS control over to a third | Jeff | Oct 7, 2009 |
|
Re: [ruby-6] configuring inbound email for a heroku app and hosted gmail - This screencast might be helpful: http://vimeo.com/6918287 Also, the
heroku mailing list had a couple of discussions on this in the past
few months. http://groups.google.com/group |
Sarah Mei | Oct 7, 2009 |