The Singapore Linux Meetup Group Message Board › Meetup.com to Charge USD19

Meetup.com to Charge USD19

Roy O.
royong
Singapore, SG
Post #: 8
could I make a bold suggestion ...

I've got the domain name SGLinux.Com registered and is current already running a PHPBB website - Perhaps if there is support from the community here and the marjority is agreeable, may I suggest that we merge SLMG with SGLinux?

I am willing to put up with the renewal costs for the domain name and/or web hosting fees. In fact, with the current arranagement, I could also provide the following

- mailing list
- forums
- email addresses for the administrators and moderators

Comments please ..
Anand V.
anandvaidya
Maisuru, IN
Post #: 17
That would be great!

Where are you hosting? Few questions though:

Any restrictions on disk size, bandwidth?
Shell access? root access?
Own hardware?

Regards,
Anand
Roy O.
royong
Singapore, SG
Post #: 9
server is located in Pacnet - Its a personal server that is servicing my own domains so local bandwidth isn't a problem - 10MBps shared.
diskspace -> how much is needed? GBs?
shell access can be enabled but it will be a jailed shell
A former member
Post #: 14
hi SLMG

I see no one actually asked Darrel Chua what the impact was.....which is strange to say the least.

Note the following
1. US$19 is charged only to the organizer
2. It is waived for the first year as he is M+
3. SLMG members are not charged at all

Note that great people like you will eventually become, create sites like Meetup.com and there is no issue with them needed to make a living if we are making use of their work.

You have the freedom to charge for your work and the choice not to.

Novell supported SLMG to build this community and if this continues, you may turn out to be wondering nomads and non paying dues members that plagues another linux user group.

BTW location issues are a bigger problem, do you not realise that no one paid to attend every SLMG event hosted since Novell kicked this off. You are not charged for location, food or beverages.

I calculated if 40 members were charged monthly to pay off the meetup.com fees of US$19/mth. It would mean US$0.475 each. Can anyone tell me how much it costs to attend the other linux user group meetings?

This is the Meetup Group. r-pan did NOT ask me to help build SLMG and I did not get this organized just to hand off to Darrel Chua to see anyone try to break this up. I have walked the talk and if you don't like to pay for anything (which you haven't), you can take a hike.

David Tang
Business Partner Manager
Novell Singapore Pte Ltd
8 Temasek Boulevard, #32-02 Suntec Tower Three, Singapore 038988
Mobile: 9684-1982 (25hrs x 8days) DDI: 6395-6868 (Transfers to Mobile when unavailable)
Main: 6395-6888 Fax: 6395-6777
Email: dtang@novell.com Web: www.novell.com/singapore
Broadline Distributor: UICND since 1988, contact Alvin Kang at DID: 6249-2174
Value Added Distributor: Ingram Micro Asia Ltd, contact Ann Toh at DID: 6488-5102 or HP: 9008-1220

Our partnership is valuable to Novell. To provide feedback on my performance; Call Ernest Low, Country Manager, Novell Singapore @ 6395-6860 or email ernestl@novell.com
A former member
Post #: 5
Folks -

While I think it is great the the Singapore Linux Meetup Group
has been thriving, why not combine forces with the Linux
Users' Group (Singapore) www.lugs.org.sg? We need a
combined voice not splinters. Splinters is exactly what the
proprietary champions point to when they criticise the Linux
and open source community.

Having said my piece, it is really upto you.

Harish
Anand V.
anandvaidya
Maisuru, IN
Post #: 18
hi SLMG

I see no one actually asked Darrel Chua what the impact was.....which is strange to say the least.

Note the following
1. US$19 is charged only to the organizer
2. It is waived for the first year as he is M+
3. SLMG members are not charged at all

Note that great people like you will eventually become, create sites like Meetup.com and there is no issue with them needed to make a living if we are making use of their work.

You have the freedom to charge for your work and the choice not to.

Novell supported SLMG to build this community and if this continues, you may turn out to be wondering nomads and non paying dues members that plagues another linux user group.

BTW location issues are a bigger problem, do you not realise that no one paid to attend every SLMG event hosted since Novell kicked this off. You are not charged for location, food or beverages.

I calculated if 40 members were charged monthly to pay off the meetup.com fees of US$19/mth. It would mean US$0.475 each. Can anyone tell me how much it costs to attend the other linux user group meetings?

This is the Meetup Group. r-pan did NOT ask me to help build SLMG and I did not get this organized just to hand off to Darrel Chua to see anyone try to break this up. I have walked the talk and if you don't like to pay for anything (which you haven't), you can take a hike.

David Tang
Business Partner Manager
Novell Singapore Pte Ltd
8 Temasek Boulevard, #32-02 Suntec Tower Three, Singapore 038988
Mobile: 9684-1982 (25hrs x 8days) DDI: 6395-6868 (Transfers to Mobile when unavailable)
Main: 6395-6888 Fax: 6395-6777
Email: dtang@novell.com Web: www.novell.com/singapore
Broadline Distributor: UICND since 1988, contact Alvin Kang at DID: 6249-2174
Value Added Distributor: Ingram Micro Asia Ltd, contact Ann Toh at DID: 6488-5102 or HP: 9008-1220

Our partnership is valuable to Novell. To provide feedback on my performance; Call Ernest Low, Country Manager, Novell Singapore @ 6395-6860 or email ernestl@novell.com



Hi David ( Novell ),

I think Darrel has made his opinion clear on the mailing list (yahoo) . Apologies Darrel, for posting, here, but if there is some confusion it is better to clarify.

I quote from the mailing list:

--------------------------------------­----------------------------------
"We can see this coming cos the writings were on the
wall.
Just got this message that they were going to charge
monthly fee of $19 (or $9 per month). However, since
I already paid for the M+ members, we don't have to
start paying till my membership expires 1 Jun 2005.

Well, no doubt the amount is not great, it kinda goes
again the principle of how the Linux meetup group got
started.

Maybe we can get some ideas here. I personally am not
in favor of paying - esp. when the tools are not all
that great anyway. I am thinking of leveraging on
Anand's server or maybe we can help get some financial
support from our linux friends (Big N and Big I) to
help defray cost of hosting our own.

Like to hear what you guys and gals think of this. "

--------------------------------------­--------------------------------------
So it is clear the paying USD19 pm, or roughly $400 pa is not what's on his mind. While I am not against paid subscriptions ( I am paying for Oreilly bookshelf, Mandrake Club, LUGS etc on a personal level), I think the vast majority of the people don't see a value for SGD400pa. We can as well host a website locally and setup forums etc and continue. ( or even ask LUGS to help out , FOC)

We definitely need one Linux Group that is Free & free. The barrier to entry, especially for new comers, people in non-IT industries etc need to be low. They need the time to understand the strengths and weaknesses of Linux/FOSS, experiment and switch.

Any cost we add to non-critical resources, the group will have to impose charges on the members, then why have SLMG? As well redirect everyone to LUGS?

Since SLMG is not registered, it may be even illegal to collect an entry fee.

LUGS, unfortunately seems to be against free memberships. ( I think LUGS should run on free memberships, but some value added services such as shell server, @lugs.org.sg email etc can be charged. Donations also can be accepted) Then LUGS can have sizeable membership as well as good finances (Hopefully). The Elders will definitely pay, even if it is voluntary.

Chill out, dude. Having a bad day?. Make your point nicely, most of the people are reasonable. They will listen. Everyone appreciates your role, IBM's help in venue, food etc there is no doubt about it.

Have a good day :-)
Roy O.
royong
Singapore, SG
Post #: 10
Hi,

Well, personally, I did try to make contact with Darrel - I sent him an email with regards to my suggestion but till date, there has not been a reply.

In any case, mine is only a suggestion - I have access to the required disk space, domain name and facilities as such - therefore I am making a suggestion for SLMG to make the cross-over. No payment, no $$$ - FREE.

USD$19/mth is a call that Darrel needs to make as the organizer. However, I do agree with some of the view points brought up i.e.

- against the principle of how the Linux meetup group got started
- when the tools are not all that great
- we definitely need one Linux Group that is Free & free

I guess we are all singing to approximately the same tune - we all appreciate and value the fact the David took up Meetup and gave it some weight especially when things were going a little slow here. We also appreciate the fact that IBM is providing the facilities for the phyiscal meetup sessions. Perhaps all we are concluding now is the fact that it might not be worth to pay the USD$19/mth to justify the existance of this site - perhaps moving it to another location [on the web] would be better.

I agree, perhaps my suggestion ain't the best solution. Perhaps someone can do better. But at present, it remains with the following alternatives:

a. pay up and continue with the USD$19/mth
b. move over to Anand's server
c. consider a move over to SGLinux.com

PS - Harish, point taken. Guess some people just wanna have a choice?
A former member
Post #: 6
Roy:

Yes, have choices and do flourish. What would be bad to see
is the evolution of a us-and-them situation. We are all in this
for the common good.

Harish
A former member
Post #: 15
The founder of SLMG is r-pan and after many months of trying to get this organized and much difficulty in getting agreement on the location the meetup group almost fell apart.

I am seriously advising advocates of Free "as in beer" to re learn the origins of GPL > FOSS
It's Free as in Speech NOT as in Beer (sic Richard Stallman)

History will repeat itself, and you will find very little support for an open forum meeting that can afford to be organized for free.

The more experienced among must not ignore the problems of organization. While things look great now. I MUST allow hindsight to guide actions since, all the organized locations from the day I handed SLMG over to Darrel had been influenced by Novell to host the meetups.

You cannot afford not to understand the mechanics of growth/decline unless you intend for SLMG to remain solely rooted to the concept of Free as in cost and confine yourself to the web as a forum community.

Darrel will decide by consensus or decree since he now holds the organizer position and should he choose to dissolve SLMG in preference to working from drupal or any other portal as many has suggested, then so be it.

As this group is unregistered and unrecognized, it may not matter to the many newer members to keep it free by making suggestions which require moving on, since even Darrel has indicated his intentions as Anand has pointed out his views above. I urge you to consider that it had already splintered when Anand & Jameel created a sg yahoo list, where Darrel posted his views no less. It looks to be splintered even further since many of you have already taken action to create new communities.

The decisions made and actions already taken are entirely within your sphere of control and (maybe) even right to freedom of speech.

BUT has anyone considered the alternative to create a sustainable organization for a collective group of individuals who would still like to MEET together. Where are the suggestions on how to meet the cost obligations instead of only suggestions to ensure it continues to be free.

Even Meetup.com has suggested the following
Get a Group Sponsor, “Pass the hat” at the Meetup, Collect Membership Dues, Set an Event Fee, Turn to the Venues, Voluntary Group Donations, Sell Advertising etc

I made it clear on the first meetup hosted by Novell as Organizer of SLMG that LINUX cannot gain mass adoption without embracing the majority is NOT about fanatics who insist on OSS being Free. It is about getting acceptance that OSS is a better concept than proprietary software because above a certain level of contribution, it results in better technology and better benefits.

This does not mean that it ceases to be Free, it just means that we have to wake up to the reality that if we ever want converts who never have to wonder how we are going to survive, we must wise up to be as professionally run as organizations go. Linux is not the issue, knowing where we are going and how to get there is the issue.
Tom G.
tomgohj
Group Organizer
Singapore, SG
Post #: 23
Hi All,

Here is my 2 cents on the matter. I like Meetup.com and I think its a great concept and works. When I first joined there were about 5 or 6 people and now it has blossomed into a thriving community of Linux and Open Source enthusiasts. While I appreciate the efforts of everyone to come up with an alternative solution, I just don't think that they can match the services and traffic that meetup.com brings. In my opinion moving away from meetup.com will cause the whole community to disintegrate; and where would we be then? Back at the political LUGS meetings!!!! (Not that I have ever been)

So putting my money where my mouth is, pass the hat around and I will drop a donation every month.

Peace Out

Jerry
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