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Re: [skeptics-137] On killing

From: Adam
Sent on: Friday, January 25, 2013 12:40 PM
Careful about conflicting definitions there:

A "hybridized" plant is not the same thing as a "Genetically Modified Organism" (GMO)
from wiki :

From a taxonomic perspective, hybrid refers to:

  1. Offspring resulting from the interbreeding between two animals or plants of different species.[2] See also hybrid speciation.
  2. Hybrids between different subspecies within a species (such as between the Bengal tiger and Siberian tiger) are known as intra-specific hybrids. Hybrids between different species within the same genus (such as between lions and tigers) are sometimes known as interspecific hybrids or crosses. Hybrids between different genera (such as between sheep and goats) are known as intergeneric hybrids. Extremely rare interfamilial hybrids have been known to occur (such as the guineafowl hybrids).[3] No interordinal (between different orders) animal hybrids are known.
  3. The third type of hybrid consists of crosses between populations, breeds or cultivars within a single species. This meaning is often used in plant and animal breeding, where hybrids are commonly produced and selected because they have desirable characteristics not found or inconsistently present in the parent individuals or populations. This flow of genetic material between populations or races is often called hybridization.
Gregor Mendel was experimentally hybridizing peas in the 1800s, people have been benefiting from hybridization by cross pollinating since we entred in to agriculture.  You are a hybrid of your mother and father.  There is litterally no food we consume that is not a hybrid, in fact anything that reproduces sexually is a hybrid.

A GMO is something that has had its DNA tinkered with and spliced directly by a boffin in a lab,
Agian from wiki :

A genetically modified organism (GMO) is an organism whose genetic material has been altered using genetic engineering techniques. Organisms that have been genetically modified include micro-organisms such as bacteria and yeast, insects, plants, fish, and mammals. GMOs are the source of genetically modified foods, and are also widely used in scientific research and to produce goods other than food

Dr. Hiten gave an excellent talk a while back about GMOs.  I think it might have been videotaped...

There are some major issues and discussions about what is going on in the GMO world (sterile crops are a big complaint of mine as well as legal fights over cross pollination from Monsanto's products.)  Is it safe to incorporate a pesticide or pesticide resistance in a crop so you can spray the farm with more and more toxic substances?  things like that. 

However see Golden Rice for an example of a very positive development from the GMO world (which does have controversy over it as well).

Also read up on Norman Borlaug for an inspiring story of a man who has made a MAJOR difference in the world through hybrid variations of grains.

On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:21 PM, eric <[address removed]> wrote:
I recently read an article about wheat.  It said that wheat today is a hybrid that produces a protein, which can lead to celiac disease in some people.  The protein was not produced in wheat prior to hybridization.  The reason for hybridization, of course, was higher yields--part of the "green revolution."  If the article is correct, then this raises some questions about other GMO foods. 

I know someone who is now on a gluten-free (no wheat) diet and feels much better as a result.

I am also concerned about the nutritional levels of our hybridized fruits and vegetables and the overall decrease in the number of varieties now available (as opposed to what was available 100 years ago).

Even though wheat may be bad, I still want my bagels.


On 1/25/[masked]:25 AM, Fred wrote:
Speaking of healthier foods, here's a source I ran across today that I can't claim to know much about, but my first thought is that there's probably a lot of good advice here, if you can get past the commercialistic stuff and the fact that these authors are nutritionists who are generalists, not researchers with Ph.D.s.  Here's their list of 4 foods that accelerate aging (i.e., degradation of organ function, joints, etc.).

I know at least one person in the group who's big on avoiding wheat.  What do others think?  I look at lowering meat intake as one of a number of actions to consider - if we're just looking at health reasons for diet changes


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Adam <[address removed]> wrote:
As much as I will argue against it, THIS is the sort of argument for a vegetarian lifestyle that I do respect.  Being a healthier human is truly more quantifiable than being a "better" one.  Health and resource consumption arguments definitely hold more sway for me than a discussion of the morality of eating critters (since I tend to see critters as a continuum, that means killing an animal is analogous to killing a plant is analogous to killing bacteria, and we all live through the death of other things no matter how you try to remove yourself, (insert my 12 bits here: Eat stupid things first, but eat smart things if you are starving!  Kill as quickly and thoroughly as possible as inducing pain is a harm.  blah blah blah.))

It is a societal good ("better human" perhaps?) to reduce your footprint on the planet, however by being healthier you are increasing the duration of your existence and therefor countering the reduced "snapshot" footprint through that longer duration. ;)

Im a horrible person thinking of such things!  (But please understand, when I was a smoker, I referred to it as my
"retirement plan".)

On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 8:37 AM, Hiten Soni, MD <[address removed]> wrote:
I like that cole.
I think I will try the gradual approch as well.
Hiten Soni, MD
All things are possible.

--- On Fri, 1/25/13, cole morgan <[address removed]> wrote:

From: cole morgan <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [skeptics-137] On killing
To: [address removed]
Date: Friday, January 25, 2013, 6:03 AM

Interesting points, Steve. Lots to think about.  

You asked before how I feel now.  At least I think that is what you asked. I haven't felt this good in the last 10 years since I eliminated meat from my diet 7 months ago. I also eat a lot more vegetables, fruits and nuts  -hardly any junk food, actually none in the last couple of months. I slowed down on bread, potatoes and rice though I continue to eat these. I have a lot more energy and have lost over 50lbs over the last two years.  I lost over 30 lbs in the last year. A year ago I was eating meat perhaps 5 or 6 times a week out of 21 meals a week. This has been a gradual experience for me. I enjoy it.


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