Justice: Fairness or Retribution?

  • July 10, 2013 · 7:00 PM

The intent here is to address legal justice issues and not general economic or social justice. Within the legal justice domain (criminal or civil) we include matters of human physical harm or loss of resources/property caused by another human entity.

Just - having a basis in or conforming to fact or reason; conforming to a standard of correctness; acting or being in conformity with what is morally upright or good; merited; legally correct; faithful to an original (archaic).

Justice - the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments.

Fair - free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice; legitimately sought, pursued, done, given, etc.

Retribution - requital according to merits or deserts, especially for evil; something given
or inflicted in such requital; Theology: the distribution of rewards and punishments in a future life.

Revenge - to avenge (as oneself) usually by retaliating in kind or degree; to inflict injury in return for.

Requital - a repayment or return or reward to (a person, group, etc.) for service, benefit, kindness, etc.; retaliation on (a person, group, etc.) for a wrong, injury, etc.; avenge; something given or done as repayment, reward, punishment, etc., in return.

Just deserts – that which is deserved. [The expression … was originally just deserts. The phrase is the last refuge of an obsolete meaning of desert—namely, something that is deserved or merited. But because most modern English speakers are unfamiliar with that old sense of desert, the phrase is often understandably written just desserts.]

Retributive justice - a theory of justice that considers punishment, if proportionate, to be the best response to crime. When an offender breaks the law, s/he thereby forfeits or suspends her/his right to something of equal value, and justice requires that this forfeit be enacted. Retribution should be distinguished from vengeance. Unlike revenge, retribution is directed only at wrongs, has inherent limits, is not personal, involves no pleasure at the suffering of others, and employs procedural standards. (R. Nozick, Retributive Perspective of Justice <See Items 7-10 of Willey paper>; Wikipedia)

Candidate for moral principal in most systems:  It is immoral/unethical to use another person to satisfy one’s needs or desires.

Some terms/expressions to explore:   Purpose of rule/law, punishment and deterrence, social deficits and rehabilitation, positive incentives/rewards, eye for an eye…, victims rights, pain and suffering (victim or third party), genocide, vigilante justice, enforcement institutions, hate crimes, hate speech, sentencing guidelines, three strikes…, variations in laws and punishments across cultures, capital punishment, treble damages, sending message [also poster child] (through prosecutions or sentencing), eminent domain, usury in crises [Sandel], biblical Solomon, heaven and hell, rush to blame, legislative opportunities [precipitated by deleterious social events], lawyers as legislators, trial theater, validity of jury judgements, plea bargaining, guilt through knowledge (conspiracy), punishing omissions (capacity), mythical majority, …

East German comment at beginning of re-unification: “We wanted justice and we got the rule of law.”

Join or login to comment.

  • A former member
    A former member

    Gina,
    Thanks for taking the time to reply. It was much appreciated.

    Lois

    July 10, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      When you exit 97, you will go a short distance to the entrance to 32. Ignore that entrance and continue straight. It will take you beneath 32 and become Route 3. In other words 32 is just a landmark if you come that direction; you never actually travel on 32.

      July 11, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      Thank you very much, Gene and John. I will copy these directions and keep them for the next discussion. Please keep me posted. I look forward to meeting you.

      July 11, 2013

  • Gina z.

    I didn't make it either, not familiar with the area yet.

    July 10, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    I couldn't find you. I came down from Ellicott City using 100 W to 97 S to 32 W. There was no exit off of 32 W for South Main Waugh Chapel Way. My GPS, even when I tried variations of the street name, could not locate Panera. I called 411 and got Panera's number. I asked if there was a group of people all seated together. The woman who answered said she was too busy to look. I round-tripped 55 miles but never got there...obviously. I am so disappointed. ): HELP.

    July 10, 2013

  • Denis Murray S.

    my wife hurt her knee and needs my help. next time.

    July 10, 2013

  • Joel B.

    cant make it. do we judge a system by its process or by its outcome? We usually judge the legal system by the process, recognizing that it sometimes produces unfair outcomes, while we usually (?) judge personal behavior by outcomes.

    July 3, 2013

    • Gene R.

      Is "it" in your question the justice, the justice system, or the crime? I can't speak for the group, but my interest is the socio-cultural trends and their potential effects on changing the emphasis on the purpose and role of the system.

      July 9, 2013

    • Craig Y.

      Should these two meant converge? The legal system deals with classes of specific crimes, be it embezzlement, prostitution, election fraud, international.

      July 10, 2013

  • Gene R.

    +Sam

    July 9, 2013

  • Craig Y.

    Well, the East Germans meant that there is justice beyond the rule of law.

    July 3, 2013

9 went

Imagine having a community behind you

Get started Learn more
Bill

I started the group because there wasn't any other type of group like this. I've met some great folks in the group who have become close friends and have also met some amazing business owners.

Bill, started New York City Gay Craft Beer Lovers

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy