The Thinkers' Club Message Board › What's your philosophy on this .... thinkers....

What's your philosophy on this .... thinkers....

dave van h.
Columbia Station, OH
Post #: 23
Ok, hi Dave Van Horn here. I haven't made any meets yet, but I like the idea of thinking. So I thought this would generate some 'thinking' and perhaps discussion around tolerance, commerce, and economic development, women's rights, and others cultures.

1. Read this article:­

2. Take away any preconceived notions of my interests being prurient because I'm male. I could care less, and believe the best looking thing on the female form, is the female form.

3. Take away your own notions of 'women's rights' and accept for the moment these women accept their lifestyle and religion, but just want to buy their under garments and intimate apparel from women, and not men.

4. Now I think we as Clevelanders should offer to host or BUILD a world class center for Saudi Muslim women to come here and 'shop' and be attended to by female only attendants, driver's, hospitality staff and security so they can shop in a dignified manner.

5. Just the off shoot of this could be economic growth for the region, position Cleveland as a 'thinking, tolerant' area, and quite possibly help the women of Saudi Arabia begin to break down their country's less than forward thinking rulers to accept changes for women in their culture, when they see their 'better halfs' leaving the country for shopping excursions to the west.

6. We would of course honor their practices as they are our 'customers', and this is merely a business transaction and not an acceptance of their laws, but frankly a relief from them. Much like going to Amsterdam to smoke hash, and peer at the prostitutes in the red light district for Americans, or even par take, in Las Vegas.

7. I know from experience Saudi men make regular junkets to Thailand, and other areas where the pleasures of the flesh are available, so why not open up some harmless shopping for the ladies here in the 'heartland of America' the Mid-West.

8. We have a strong Arabic base here, and the Cleveland Clinic is well known in the Mid-East and respected, so we have a great deal of talent in the region to pull this off respectably, while generating incomes for our citizens, especially our females at every professional level. What better way to assure the sanctity of these women, than protecting them with our finest, who can no doubt do the job.

9. Why wouldn't this be a great idea...? Build a World Class Muslim Women's Apparel Mart here in Cleveland. Sure beats the crap out of what is coming out of Frank Jackson's administration.

Thoughts thinkers? Let's put some brain power on real issues....

I can be reached at dbvanhorn windstream dotus netus
user 8342056
Twinsburg, OH
Post #: 21
Wow, i can't say that I'm surprised by this totally makes sense given the modesty of Muslim women and the government's ban on women working in Saudi Arabia. If these women are mortified of buying undergraments from salesmen (and who could blame them? don't see many male employees at Victoria Secret here in the States), then I wonder how they feel about going to the gynocologist and discussing their sex lives there? Whereas a man can - theoretically - go shopping for his wife's underwear and bras, he can't go to the gyno for her. It seems to be that there is more than one profession this protest ought to address.

I guess that I would have to understand more about Saudi Arabia to know whether or not it would be a good business plan to build a Muslim Women's Apparel store here in the US. First of all, I don't know how many women would be allowed to travel alone to the US from Saudi I understand it, Saudi women aren't even allowed to drive cars. They also would not be in control of financing their trip since they aren't allowed to work. Finally, why would their husbands send their wives over to America - land of sin and abomination?? You would think that they would be more likely to stay in the Middle East.

I did find the article interesting for a couple of reasons: 1) Here we have a contemporary example of dialectical theory playing out - a social structure shifting due to economic progression. Women - they primary buyers of their underwear - demand to buy from female-run underwear stores. A change has taken place in supply and demand. The Saudi's sexually conservative cultural ideas have realized a contradiction: whereas laws against women in the workplace were intended to protect women against sexual exploitation, they are actually contradicting their purpose in one sector. Economic transactions are providing a motivation for women in Saudi Arabia to gain the right to their own income. If this protest is successful and women can start working in the underwear business, then some women will be able to support themselves without having to be married or live with a male breadwinner. Cultural attitudes toward women may- in time - shift....and all of this change is taking place organically. 2) I never thought of women in Saudi Arabia actually enjoying sex with their husbands; I guess I always thought that women were sort of forced into it no matter what. But they must be having a good time to go all the way to anothe country for underwear!
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