Intrigued, but would be more intrigued if the panel included members who do not have commercial interests in social media. Surely an artist or academic could be found? Someone with critical stakes in dissecting social media as a form of telematic communications amongst others? Who has a background in alternative or indiejournalism?

Hi Tobias, thanks for the comment. The panelists were chosen because they were very hands-on at the event - and could offer that perspective. The academic point of view, in general, is of interest to me as well and might form the subject of a future panel/event.

Indeed, of course, and I look forwards to an academic panel -- though I hope you aren't saying that academics aren't hands-on in regards to social media production.;) On the contrary, I think you will find. What about W2? In the indiejournalism scene? Looking forwards to more panels with broader perspectives..!

Wasn't saying that at all :) BTW, we actually also wanted Dave Olson on the panel, but he'll be out of town. Of course, every talk (or group) cannot meet everyone's needs. I certainly experience that - want more of X but a talk is more Y focused. I'm a performer myself & so I very much understand the desire to see more art/social media stuff. The mandate of the group is http://su.pr/2KwuoG - we veer off sometimes, but generally try to make it relevant to that audience.

Reisa, that's awesome. Thank so much for letting us know!

Glad to see the discussion here. If I could attend my question would be: "Why is this panel called 'The Future of Citizen Journalism,' given that none of the panelists are journalists, and all are involved commercially in social media through advertising and public relations?"

The question appears predecided: the future of citizen journalism is advertising.

So it would be beneficial indeed to find a fourth panelist who is actually a journalist using social media, and not also in PR, etc.

Tobias has a good point. Gillian Shaw would have been a great add to the panel, or Frances Bula, both local and solid journalists (esp Frances) who work with social media to talk about stories.

Tobias, our panelists are set. I look forward to the event you'll be organizing where you address all those questions.

Although...if we're talking about 'citizen journalism' (not just straight-up social media), why would we be talking to journalists? By definition, they're not citizen journalists...they're journalist-journalists.

Erin, I was thinking the same thing.

Tobias: So what corporate interest do I represent? If you had looked at my 2010 site you'd see no advertising.

tobias i've appreciated your input over the past month and wish i would have gotten to meet you when you were down from whistler.

for what it's worth i consider myself a freelance photographer and journalist.

bob mackin would be another great person to get to attend this event as would stephen hui. we can run it kinda open style such that these very issues get brought up and discussed... :)

regarding w2, while i'm not the spokesperson i sit on the board of directors and helped plan and attended many events over the month the culture and media house was open and will definitely include that in my perspective. :)

Being a citizen of Vancouver's urban jungle, if my parrot, Baby Picasso, Animal Kingdom foreign correspondent do the coverage of the event, I wonder what would that be? :)

Ditto. My income is from making WordPress websites. I covered the Olympics for my blog (a medium which VANOC doesn't recognize or accredit). I didn't have a major outlet nor was I paid to cover the Olympics in any way.

In a similar vein, I have submitted a talk to Northern Voice that would include "traditional" media. I think it would be interesting to hear how they used Twitter, blogs etc. during the Games being "non official" broadcasters.

I look forward to this panel in the meantime.

Actually what John says is true: his blog has no ads and as far as I know his work and event coverage overlap only in technical skills, so I think there actually is a plurality between commercial and non-commercial avenues here.

This conversation needs to take place at the event! Will try to make it, but I live in Whistler.

Erin-good q, though what about http://indymedia.org & http://citr.ca & http://vancouver.mediacoop.ca ?

John-not saying you be corporate, but yr job is as e-biz consultant, yes?

Monique-indeed, founding member of int'l tech arts network http://upgrademtl.org & http://theupgrade.net , also as curator at SAT in MTL http://sat.qc.ca - spent my life organising. thankless task, i know.

Tobias: My day job is irrelevant (and completely unrelated) to my Olympic experience...again, had you looked into things closer you'd have seen that I took a vacation from my job as an analyst to cover the Olympics as a freelance photographer. I also purposely created a separate site for my coverage (without ads of any kind) as it's not directly related to my personal blog which has more of a tech/photographer topic focus. Obviously as a passionate photographer, there was some overlap.

John - I think you take my questions too personally. Critical thinking aka journalism means investigating things. I'm not talking about yr Olympics coverage. Talking about future of citizen journalism based upon panelist bios presented here, in which case socioeconomic career is certainly significant in relation to future of journalism and citizenship. But as this panel will redefine its topic (?), the question appears moot.

Tobias: I take it personally when you directly imply that my day job has some implication to the topic at hand which it doesn't - at all (I'm actually not an 'e-biz consultant'). You're welcome to attend the discussion so for now I'll defer further comments until the 23rd as this isn't the appropriate place for this conversation.

John: I think you're missing my point, though if you want to make clear that yr dayjob in ebiz has nothing to do with social media citjourn, you need to amend your bio above: "John Biehler is: an E-Business analyst, a technologist, a consultant [...]." It is completely fair to think that a panel looking into social media & citjourn would want to include citjournalists *not* involved in ebiz.

Tobias: This has become tiresome. If you'd like to continue this discussion, you have a blog. Or you can attend the event. Wait, you likely won't because you don't appreciate the direction and don't approve of the choice of panelists. And you don't intend to come from Whistler.

Tobias, I think what John & others are likely taking exception to is your inference that somehow the panelists will make this talk a stage from which to promote their own interests. The fact of the matter is having known all three speaker for many years & having been on panels with all of them as well, I can say that none of them would grandstand like that. I think Monica & Jeremy have selected three of the most active people during the games & people she knew she could trust to give great talks

Tobias, I agree wholeheartedly with Tris. You couldn't be more wrong about the intentions of the three panelists. I know them all and their integrity is beyond reproach. It's unfortunate that you seem to want to think otherwise, despite what anyone says.

Tris - I have utmost respect for the panelists. The point is that the panel lacks representation from Van Media Co-op, Ubyssey & other citjourn social media that were also VERY prolific during Olympics. This alternative perspective be needed. TNMH was not the only game in town. And yes, I have questions as to the commercial economics of social media. Check the deeper analysis at [ http://bit.ly/dpeiaF ].

Cathy - again, I am surprised that a meeting concerning "citizen journalism" has quickly turned into a round of "shoot the messenger." If this conversation is reflective of what people think of those who ask questions, then "citizen journalism" is perhaps doomed from the start...

making a tent that is muthafucking big and welcoming to all is challenging but an effort worthy of our pursuit.

this may not be the place for it i hear the organizers saying... tobias i'd love to get your assistance in the 'media hacking the olympics' panel i've been tossing back and forth with dave olson for nothern voice... today might be the last day to submit.

Monica - I think you are the first meeting organiser I've met who is trying to shut down a conversation that has probably guaranteed you decent discussion & attendance (!). Remember, even critique generates good promotion. And, I didn't know that comment forms, if used, were tiresome (itself a comment on social media?). In any case, perhaps you'd like to invite me to be on the panel? That would guarantee my attendance. So, what's it going to be? Offer is open.

Attendance for this meetup was just fine, even before this discussion. I myself have enjoyed following this discussion, however there are a lot of people unwittingly subscribed by email to this thread and find this tiresome. Monica is doing them a good service by trying to wind this conversation down. (And I'm sorry for perpetuating it)

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but I think we may be caught on semantics here. To me, "citizen journalism" just means "everyday people reporting news".

The idea behind this panel was that people from around the world - not just the IOC's media outlets - took part in covering the Olympics through social media. Some might be business consultants. Others, artists, journalists, teachers - whatever they may be, everyone had a say, and it was AMAZING. A community was born.

Tobias, I agree that a broader, larger panel would be great. Logistically though, three people is already a busy talk. That said, you raise some good points and I want to hear your questions. Could you please message me with topics you'd like covered? I know our panelists might not be who you wanted, but this is a celebration of social media. And social media is discussion. If I can address an issue for you at the panel, I'll do my best to voice your thoughts. Same goes for anyone else.

Sorry everyone - one last message. I realize email is not the most social technology, so I created a discussion for this event on the Third Tuesday Vancouver Facebook group. While it'd be great to continue the conversation here, it seems we're sending out lots of email notifications, so let's keep things moving without clogging up the inbox. The group page is here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=266947057928&re... Chat soon!

Wow! I feel like I'm a little late to the party, but I wanted to chime in quickly.

I think this conversation has been great! It's exciting to have so many passionate people in Vancouver come together and express their views on the topic of citizen journalism, even if they don't agree on the semantics.

I was on the fence about attending the next Meetup, but I will definitely be there in hopes that the event will encourage the same type of passionate debate.

Cheers!

Hi Jeff,

I don't see you having an issue getting into the bar, but you might want to call Ceilis and check about that.

http://www.ceilis.com/2009/vancouver/
604-697-9199

Cheers,
Monica

Sometimes it is better to ask for forgiveness rather then permission.

Looking forward to it guys. I was out and about for all 17 days of the Olympics ... Facebook and select blogs (including Miss604.com ) were where I got nearly all the event info I needed. LiveCity being an exception... but the official site and CTV's pages etc rarely got a visit from me. I didn't follow it being discussed in twitter but Facebook convos really kept the updates and excitement flowing.

Looking forward to hearing the discussions.

150+ confirmed yes? holy crap. stagefright! too bad scales and olson and miah and other won't be on hand. oh well.. should be fun. who is moderating the panel?

That would be me, good sir. Let's rock. Need to find more red clothes.

Kris, you're awesome - I've see you speak - and before large audiences too. And Jeremy Lim is moderating. It should be a great night!

I'm only coming if there's a mud-wrestling match between Tobias and the panel.