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Re: [atheists-494] Origins

From: Stephan F.
Sent on: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:42 PM
Seems to me we are burdened with a mind that only understands beginnings and endings. There is probably a perfect explanation that our minds are not exactly evolved enough to comprehend. Kind of like thinking the planet is flat or that we are the center of the solar system (would it be "earth system" if it was that way?) Probably expansion and contractions. Like the riddle about what came first, the chicken or the egg? Probably just a puddle of cells that began to react to the environment and part of it was a cellular being that evolved a protective cover so in a way they both came first. Or together. Gravity seems to be an amazing ingedient that isn't given much credit. Without gravity, there wouldn't be bodies to inhabit. Gravity just might be the "God" of our existence. Really, we could all be horribly wrong. Somebody said it might be like a rat in a lab trying to understand the secret life of the beings that were controlling them. We're the rats. We're still in an infancy stage. Methinks. At least that's what Gene Rodenberry said.

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Ted Drange <[address removed]> wrote:
Did time have beginning?  If it did, then it could not possibly have been deliberately created, since a creator must always exist in time BEFORE his creation (which is impossible if the creation is time itself).  So, if time had a beginning, then it simply began, uncaused.  But time is the period between events.  So, in that case, events (matter in motion) must have simply begun, uncaused.  On the other hand, if time had no beginning, then there is no reason whatever to deny that events (matter in motion) also had no beginning, in which case, again, there was NO CAUSE for them.  That which had no beginning cannot possibly have a cause.  What room, then, is there for any "creator" in any of this?
Ted Drange

At 10:37 AM 2/27/2013, you wrote:
I won't assume that Phil is headed in this direction, but many times religious folks will ask this question to start a discussion about creation in general. Typically, they offer that some (or their) god created the universe/cosmos. But, for anyone who thinks logically, the next question should be "If God created the universe, then where did God come from?"  Their answer to that is usually something like "God always existed and will exist forever." However, it's every bit as logical to say "The universe always existed and will exist forever (in one form or another)."  In spite of the multitude of facts and observations that support the Big Bang theory, in a fundamental logical way it's "in the same boat" so-to-speak as the religious answer. We can always take a creation explanation and push it back one step ... and not have a satisfying answer.
In my personal opinion, I support the Big Bang theory (as well as the great TV show by that name!) but have resigned to the fact that we may never know where that first bit of matter (or energy) came from. I find it a bit ironic that so many folks are consumed by seeking the answer to a question like this that really will have no bearing on their life at all. The universe has always existed and always will ... period - I've accepted that as satisfying enough. Now, I think I should move on and solve some problems that really can affect me and others on this planet. BTW, I'm an engineer (analog electronics) and hold logical thought and skepticism in the highest possible regard - without them, we'd likely be little more than cave dwellers.
Bill Whitlock
-----Original Message-----
From: [address removed] [ mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of A. S. Machiraju
Sent: Wednesday, February 27,[masked]:06 AM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [atheists-494] Working with the Reality-Challenged

The Big Bang theory is the prevailing model. All matter was compressed into a single point, but it exploded from it. No matter was created or destroyed, but it expanded from that singular point. The universe is still continuing to expand as of now, over 13.7 billion years after the fact.

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 27, 2013, at 9:28 AM, phil otero <[address removed]> wrote:

my name is phil.  just wondering (haven't made a meeting yet), do you have a theory as to the origin of the cosmos?

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