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Attend GCC's monthly THINK meetup and discuss freewill & foreknowledge

This is a critical thinking and discussion forum hosted by the small groups department of Gateway City Church.

Freewill & Foreknowledge: Can freewill exist in a future that God already knows?

Freewill and Foreknowledge:

Can God know the future while we still have a choice in it?

(?) What is the definition of a freewill agent?

a) What constitutes human will (the answer to this question determines the answer to the next)? Is it free?

b) What constitutes God’s will? Is it free? Is it sovereign?

(?) Does God know the future?

a) If yes, how does He know it? (what is the nature of His knowledge, e.g., deterministic or otherwise?)

b) Does the nature of His foreknowledge have implications for the issue of human freewill?

<> Is “the future” anything more than a concept? i.e., does “the future” even exist?

a) If not, is there anything “there” for God to know?

b) Why is the answer to this question significant to the issue of Freewill and Foreknowledge?

(?) What does the Bible say about freewill?

a) How does the Arminian “controversy” relate to this topic?

b) If you believe you have any freewill, how do you choose to respond to God’s invitation to acknowledge Him?

For more details, go to http://www.meetup.com/THINK-The-Critical-Thinking-and-Discussion-Forum-San-Jose/events/145760672/

Join or login to comment.

  • Invisible Pink U.

    From http://ffrf.org/legacy/about/bybarker/fang.php

    The Christian God is defined as a personal being who knows everything. According to Christians, personal beings have free will.

    In order to have free will, you must have more than one option, each of which is avoidable. This means that before you make a choice, there must be a state of uncertainty during a period of potential: you cannot know the future. Even if you think you can predict your decision, if you claim to have free will, you must admit the potential (if not the desire) to change your mind before the decision is final.

    A being who knows everything can have no "state of uncertainty." It knows its choices in advance. This means that it has no potential to avoid its choices, and therefore lacks free will. Since a being that lacks free will is not a personal being, a personal being who knows everything cannot exist.

    Therefore, the Christian God does not exist.

    November 8, 2013

  • Kennita

    There was a self-identified Christian atheist (?!) and determinist there; part of his view mirrored mine in that if god knows everything that has ever happened and ever will happen, then free will is just an illusion, though perhaps a useful one.

    November 8, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Anyone care to post some comments? I'd love to hear them.

    November 8, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    I'll be interested in hearing about the discussion at our next meeting.

    November 8, 2013

  • Scot

    This was a good THINK Group session. The group was overly represented by non-theists ... I would have preferred a more balanced interaction. Nevertheless, it was an engaging and stimulating interaction. Even with the over-representation of non-theists, there was no dearth of opposing opinions.

    November 8, 2013

  • Ryan

    Looking forward to tonight's discussion!

    November 7, 2013

  • Kennita

    Not to whinge or impose, but to get me to LIFT for the 7:30 PM talk, Outreach would need to pick me up between 5:24 and 5:54. I'd much prefer a ride (from Sunnyvale) if that's possible. If anybody's going down from this direction, I'd much appreciate a ride. I'll spring for gas, food, or drink.

    November 6, 2013

  • Kennita

    I may need help getting home from this; Outreach will only pick up from a location within 3/4 of a mile of a VTA line, during the times it is running, so the latest they would pick me up is 7:33 PM. They would be willing to pick me up from the Santa Teresa Light Rail (about 2.25 miles from the LIFT Cafe) much later. Please write (kennita at kennita dot com) ASAP if you can drop me off there after the talk. Thanks!

    November 6, 2013

  • Shaina K.

    Something came up and I can't make it this time, but I'm interested in attending one of these in the future.

    November 5, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Is THINK a christian group? It seems like they may be open to non-believers attending but are they going to discuss the properties of god the entire time?

    November 4, 2013

  • Constantine L.

    I am interested in any Atheistic or Agnostic philosophy that incorporates a deterministic term like God in it.

    November 2, 2013

  • Invisible Pink U.

    The issue of free will is covered very well in this debate between David Silverman and Frank Turek. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysjqiOfq6F4

    October 27, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      There is some good stuff here if you keep god in the equation, but I have a really hard time giving Frank Turek any time at all. I have found him to be an spoiled, little child (tantrums and all).

      October 28, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      Frank Turek vs. Christopher Hitchens;http://www.youtube.co...­

      October 28, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    How can one discuss this topic without presupposing there is a god in the first place and then you have to define the particular qualities of the god you will be arguing for/against? I suppose that's what philosophers do all the time, just seems frustrating to me. Not trying to be a Debby Downer, just asking. There are some interesting biological/scientific aspects that could be discussed without bringing a god in to the mix, but that will only get you about ten minutes.
    I guess I could just be apathetic to the question, but then, who cares?

    October 27, 2013

    • Invisible Pink U.

      Moe - You are right. In order for the answers to the questions to have any meaning, there has to first be a mutually acceptable definition of 'God'. All I know is: if you know everything, then you know what free choices you'll make in the future - which means you can't do anything (or can't choose B when you knew you would choose A). And if you can do anything, then you can't know everything, as you'd know what future choices you'll make - meaning you can choose A, even though your foreknowledge said you'd choose B. If anyone can refute this argument, I'll buy them some beachfront property in Kansas.

      October 28, 2013

  • Kennita

    Please email me, kennita at kennita dot com, if you can offer a ride to this. I'll spring for some eats, either on the way or onsite (if they have anything).

    October 20, 2013

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