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Re: [atheists-501] entrance fee for the fieldtrip on Monday

From: Yalchin
Sent on: Tuesday, October 2, 2007 2:26 AM
Good morning all,

I have attended the talk and for those of you who weren't there it was appalling! If this is the best theists can do, well they are done for... but then again what else can they do?

His whole argument (bar one) was something of one major 'gap' theory. All he could do was that given all the discoveries of science, no one could absolutely and categorically prove that god does not exist. Therefore somehow it is equally valid to believe that there is  a (christian) god as it is to 'believe' that there is no god.

By the same token, one could argue that for all the discoveries of science, we cannot categorically prove that there isn't a stuffed spit roasted pig with a straight tail revolving around the sun. Thus it is equally valid to believe that there is such a pig as it is to believe that there isnt.

Appalling charlatanism! Just quietly an event with a probability of[masked]% and one with a probability of .0001% are both not certainties. However they can hardly be taken as equals!!!

He crapped on for an hour and a half, and provided no positive evidence favouring God or theism. I mean he set his aim so damn low that it was sad to see him and the morons in the audience in a victorious rapture at the end!

It reminded me an high school joke: A beatiful peasant girl is married to the rich lords retarded son. The girl has a lover she continues to see. The lover pays the girl a visit. He draws a circle in the living room and tells the retard to stay out of it.

The lord pays his son a visit. He finds the front door open and goes in. He sees his daughter in law having sex with a stranger in the middle of the circle and his stand standing outside the circle.

"son" he says how could you let this happen.

"Never mind, dad",says the retard, "I got him". "When he wasn't looking I kept stretching my big toe over the line".

For 90 minutes, our learned christian put his big toe over the line! And argued that it is  still possible to believe in the existence of the cosmic stuffed pig.

The one justified argument he had was in relation to a clear weakness in Dawkins' argument. Which is related to his lack of appreciation of historical materialism. That is, he attributes primacy to idealogy in social agency. Religion is evil because it causes fundamentalists to do evil things! In fact, fundamentalism can only be understood within a the framework concrete actual/lived conditions.  Take  islamist fundamentalism as a recent example. This cannot be understood as emerging from the teachings in the Koran - but only in the context of a history of imperialism and sustained oppression.

This is one collosal mistake that quite quickly turns on Atheism. The problem finds its worst expression not in Dawkins but in Hitchens. On the basis of Saddam resorting to islamism out of desperation in his final years (in complete contrast to his baathist line upto this point), Hitchens, using atheism, tries to justify the decimation of Iraq by American Imperialism and is lackeys. This is a mind boggling treachery on the part of Hitchens. He reduces atheism to the same level of theisms in terms of socio-political utility.

----- Original Message ----
From: tony obermeit <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Sunday, September 30,[masked]:45:19 AM
Subject: Re: [atheists-501] entrance fee for the fieldtrip on Monday

I went looking to find the link I saw about charging for the presentation....

http://www.iscast.org.au/events/?action=detailed&ID=82

It was for a previous / other presentation with the same title, sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

Tony


On Thursday, September 27, 2007, at 03:53PM, "judith" <[address removed]> wrote:
>Hi All,
>  
>  i didn't see any indications that we have to pay to attend. After all,  the meeting is at uni, and nobody would go if they charge for  attending...
>  
>  Judith
>
>Sue Skuse <[address removed]> wrote:  
>
>--
>Susan Skuse
>6 Veronica Drive Tallai Qld. 4213
>PO Box 331  Mudgeeraba Qld. 4213
>Ph. (h)[masked] (w)[masked] 124  081
>
>
>
>    --------- Original Message --------
>From:  [address removed]
>To: "[address removed]"  <[address removed]>
>Subject: Re: [atheists-501] Fw: Welcome  Jyoti
>Date: 27/09/[masked]:45
>
>      The following is an  interesting link: a debate between Dawkins and the learned author that we  are going hear:
>
>  
>
>  http://www.rzim.org/resources/audio_visuals.php
>  
>
>
>  ----- Original Message ----
>From: Julian  <[address removed]>
>To: [address removed]
>Sent:  Thursday, September 27,[masked]:00:05 AM
>Subject: Re: [atheists-501] Fw:  Welcome Jyoti
>
>  Ooooh, interesting...
>
>as me actually thinking about seeing if we  could pull a stunt at extremely short notice that involved doing a little  indirect finger pointing at hypocrisy - namely seeing if we could motivate  non Christian charities and causes such as Amnesty International,  Greenpeace, Medecins Sans Frontieres and the RSPCA etc (some of whom are  used to street canvassing individuals) to turn up and by nothing more than  their presence and usual pitch, illustrate that the world is not doing too  well, no thanks to an AWOL imaginary friend, and that non Christians are  quite capable of moral and altruistic acts etc.  Mainly though  it'd be for the value of a pile of people turning up to hear how shallow and  pointless and bankrupt atheism is and how superior they are in comparison,  and then having to walk past plea after plea after plea for help, probably  turning them all down and/or rationalising some way to demonise the poor  people doing their job.
>
>Openly Christian groups such as World Vision  could also be invited for the same reason and hell, if any of the smug sods  get guilted into giving - well good for them.
>
>Oh and it's a crying  shame we couldn't get the Red Cross to turn up as the other half of their  organisation, the Red Crescent to view how much flak they receive from  ignoramuses.
>
>OK, done with the silly suggestions of making a  spectacle...
>
>
>P.S. I gave blood for the first time earlier this  month and it's a lot easier than I expected. I even felt physically better  for it.
>
>
>
>---- Martin Rady <[address removed]> wrote:  
>> Hi everyone,
>> one of our members Jyoti is making a  documentary about atheism and is
>> hoping to film at the presentation  on Monday night that I sent a note about
>> a few days ago from  Judith.
>>
>> Jyoti is lookng for some members to be filmed as  they arrive at the
>> presentation.
>>
>> Here email address  is below. Suggest you contact her if you wish to
>> particpate.
>>  
>> I'll be getting back from a camping trip on Monday so not sure what  time
>> I'll get back and de-feral to be ready for the presentation so  may not make
>> it.
>>
>> Thanks & Regards,
>>  Martin Rady,
>>
>> Mob:[masked]
>> ----- Forwarded by  Martin Rady/Australia/IBM on 27/09/[masked]:03 AM  -----
>>                                                                            
>>              Jyoti  Barry                                                    
>>      & nbsp;       <jyoti_barry@hotm                                              
>>              ail.com>                                                    To  
>>                               ;          Martin  Rady/Australia/IBM@IBMAU      
>>              26/09/2007  06:36                                            cc  
>>              PM                                                        ;     
>>                                                                    Subject  
>>                                        RE:  Welcome  Jyoti                    
>>            &n bsp;                                                               
>>                                                                            
>>                 &nb sp;                                                            
>>                                                                            
>>           &nb  sp;                                                                
>>                                                                            
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Martin
>>
>> When I  mentioned I say I'm agnostic, but live my life like a atheist. I
>>  sort of meant in the sense that, in my day to day life I see proof
>>  everywhere that their is no god and accept rational scientific thought,  but
>> in the back of my mind I'm not yet ready to commit to that  ideology, purely
>> because I don't want to be wrong. Or to be see as  close minded.
>>
>> I really would like to come to the meeting  but it depends if I can get
>> there in time.
>>
>> On  another note as part of my research for this documentary I came  across
>> the lecture by Professor Alister McGrath, The Bankruptcy of  Atheism and was
>> planning to attend to place to provide some  objectivity. I was hoping I
>> might also be able to get a take a  camera, but whether they will allow me
>> to film the lecture is  another thing. I noticed in the emails that some of
>> meet up group  were planning to attend too, so it is possible that I could
>> film  them attending. I will find out if I can film in the lecture, and  will
>> let you know. My main focus will be stuff we can use for the  doco, but if i
>> can get other footage I would definitely try.
>>  
>> I found this site from the atheist foundation site, again through  research.
>>
>>
>> Jyoti
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>> > From: [address removed]
>> > To:  [address removed]
>> > Subject: Welcome Jyoti
>> >  Date: Mon, 17 Sep [masked]:20:25 -0400
>> >
>> >
>> >  Hello Jyoti,
>> >
>> > Martin Rady sent you this message  from The Brisbane Atheists
>> > Meetup Group on Meetup.com:
>>  >  ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>  > Hi Jyoti,
>> > cool name.
>> >
>> > Thanks for  joining out Meetup group, and for updating your
>> > profile  questions so that we can learn a little about you.
>> >
>> >  Am interested in your comment '...but live my life like an
>> >  atheist.' What you mean by this?
>> >
>> > Pls start or join  in the discussions on the Messages Board and
>> > check out our  links page which can be gotten to from the 'About
>> > Us'  page.
>> >
>> > Glad to see you are a Maybe for our next  meeting.
>> >
>> > If you have specific questions or theme's  you would like to
>> > discuss for you documentary pls let us know  maybe we can make
>> > it the Topic for the meeting after next in  November?
>> >
>> > Also would like to hear how you heard of  the group?
>> >
>> >
>> > Martin
>> >  ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >
>> > You can reply to this email as you would any other. Or,  keep
>> > your email address private by replying via the link  below:
>> > http://www.meetup.com/message/?recipientId=2780565&anon=1
>>  >
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>> > http://www.meetup.com/members/2780565/
>>  >
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>>
>> Enter  now! Win a $16K adventure holiday to Rajasthan, India.
>>
>>  
>>
>>
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>Well, thanks  indeed.  I've listened to both parts.  He is a Wormtongue , no  doubt  (LOTR).  Because he appears apologetic to an extent, he is  a bit harder to nail.  I noticed in the interview that he seemed to  show weakness when answering questions on the virgin birth and also on the  wrongness of other faiths.
>
>
>People, please go along and ask lots  of hard questions.  I cant get there but I wish you  well.  
>
>In my own home I get much worse stuff (although the  worseness is hard to judge) for example, Kent Hovind videos ("Creation  science").  He's doing a lengthy stretch now for tax fraud, but he is  still puttingout his "message".
>
>Also, if youre interested you could  check up on the career of fundamentalist baptist Ted Haggard who ran into a  few problems with crystal meth and gay prostitutes -- he was a big player -  had a weekly telephone conference with George Bush Jnr.  Apparently  he's been cured of being gay now - thank the Lord.
>
>And does  anyone here follow the "rapture" thinkers?  There is literature in my  own home, and I am not  at all rapturous about it.
>
>Sue Skuse
>  
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