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ChicagoVeg» Chicagoland Vegetarian-Vegan-RawFood Community Message Board › Do you need to add an oil to freshly-juiced vegetables?

Do you need to add an oil to freshly-juiced vegetables?

Chicago, IL
Post #: 1
Hi Patrick,

I've been following this discussion board for a while. I’ve been vegetarian for 20 years. Recently I realized that vegetarian diet is not the healthiest diet in the world and I’m transitioning to row vegan diet. So, I’m interested to learn more about nutrition. You mentioned in your previous post something about noncommercial information about fats and nutrition. Could you please share some valuable resources on this discussion board so that more people could have access to it? Thanks!
Patrick & Iris M.
user 11251414
Madison, WI
Post #: 7
Hi David, sorry I've been slow to get back to you.
My first observation is that nothing digests faster than juice, so while I don't get too wrapped up in food combining, I wouldn't mix it with anything, much less something that would slow its absorption as much as oil- if you want slower absorption just eat the produce you're juicing whole instead. Juicing dramatically speeds the rate of oxidation so if I'm going to do it I'm going to drink it immediately on an empty stomach, usually while juice fasting. Oil is the ultimate concentration of calories, being pure fat at 9 cal/g, requiring hyperactive secretion of lipase enzymes and bile. Oil takes a long time to burn so it's useful if you're not going to be eating anything for, say, a couple weeks and walking across a desert, but last resort survival strategies aren't well suited to daily ongoing implementation. Ongoing consumption of concentrated calories depletes non-caloric nutrients (vitamins, minerals, other antioxidants and a whole world of unclassified phytonutrients) and nothing is more calorically concentrated than oil- not a good situation when your metabolic powers are being put to the ultimate test!
Like I mentioned before, just because we neet fat for the absorption of fat soluble nutrients, among other things, doesn't mean we need to consume them in a radically concentrated form!
"Healthy" is a relative experience- I promise you'll experience it as you never have before if you substitute whole plant foods for animal and processed foods! That being said, it's not the end of the world if you do a little coconut oil and lecithin (hopefully non-soy derived)- the problem is doing a little when you're dealing with concentrated calories-consumption can snowball very quickly because they deactivate our "off" switch. Check out "The Pleasure Trap" by Doug Lisle if you're interested in this process (or talk to any alcoholic- alcohol contains 7 cal/g, almost as much as fat).
Patrick & Iris M.
user 11251414
Madison, WI
Post #: 8
Hi Ella, sorry to take a while getting back to you.
The place to start in my opinion is with the biggest name in non-commercial nutritional research- Colin Campbell. Read The China Study or refer to The Colin Campbell Foundation website for a solid frame of reference.
There are several medical doctors who have healed their patients of chronic health conditions with a nutritional protocol of whole plant foods: among them John McDougall, Caldwell Esselstyn, Joel Fuhrman, Gabriel Cousens. All of them have websites containing fantastic nutrition info.
Then there's the registered dieticians, who generally know much more about nutrition than MD's. Check out Jeff Novick, Jack Norris, Brenda Davis for online resources, or have a talk with Eric Sharer, ChicagoVeg's RD!
One of the coolest sites on the web in my opinion is Dr. Michael Greger presents information straight from medical journals on a daily basis in two-minute videos and has already an extensive archive.
If you're into a raw diet I'd recommend books by Victoras Kulvinskas and Gabriel Cousens who are both wise and loving spiritual guides in addition to their nutritional expertise (I differ slightly from Dr. Cousen's nutritional perspective but he's too awsome not to read). I haven't read Douglas Graham but I understand his diet am impressed with the results he gets physically. I'd also recommend Mike Andersen, Arnold Ehret (for the sharpness of his mind and eloquent writing) and Frederic Patenaude. Raw is good, but what is it really? I think we need to more comprehensively evaluate what the term means. Beware of those who focus exclusively on the temperature threshold while disregarding all other nutritional principles. Also ease into it- don't dramatically increase the amount of fiber in your diet overnight! It's okay to cook plant foods. Ideal? perhaps not- but how you cook is makes a bigger difference than whether or not you do.
Congratulations on going vegan, continue following your heart and all will be well!
Chicago, IL
Post #: 7
Patrick, I know this discussion is several months old, but if you're still reading: What you say makes a whole lot of sense, no pun intended. Are you suggesting, for ex, that if I make a raw salad with red leaf lettuce, spinach, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower, tomatoes, avocado, sunflower seeds, & a small amount of vinaigrette dressing, that I am doing better than if I juiced all the stuff, & added oil extracted from seeds or nuts? The reason I ask is that I have become a big believer in "whole foods", the concept (as opposed to the supermarket gimmick), & no one I know has adequately addressed my concern over juicing, which is this: how can EXTRACTING the fiber, a miracle of nature & what nutritionists, Md's, etc know is fabulous for humans & something we don't get enough of, possibly improve the nutrition profile over what occurs naturally?
Patrick & Iris M.
user 11251414
Madison, WI
Post #: 10
Hi Les, I'm glad you've embraced the whole food concept and are now working on the finer details of getting the most out of it. I'd say what determines whether or not the removal of fiber is beneficial or detrimental is the caloric density of the food to begin with. If it is calorically dense then it's very easy to give the body an excessive metabolic workload, which will exhaust the liver, pancreas and destabilize hormonal balance throughout the body. The reason it's so easy to do is that we don't have an off switch for concentrated calories as we do for fiber so eating fiberless calorie dense foods (which includes animal "foods" as well as plants from which the fiber has been removed) is playing with fire.
Concentrated carbohydrates, proteins and fats will all cause different problems but you'll find at least one of these if you look for the cause of virtually any chronic disease. Fiber, or cellulose, is the long chain carbohydrate out of which plants compose their rigid structures. Our bodies don't produce cellulase, the enzyme that catalyzes cellulose digestion, although microbes in our colons do. Excessive fiber will cause excessive cellulose metabolism in this part of the body, which produces excessive gas. Fiber consumption is a balancing act along with juggling calories and micronutrients- all are important, and it's much easier to let whole foods guide us to healthy ratios rather than trying to be reckless circus performers juggling concentrated foods.
The reason that juicing vegetables is beneficial is that due to the low calorie density, removal of fiber is relatively safe and concentrates micronutrients for healing purposes, which of course can be taken to an extreme as well but is more difficult to do because concentrated calories aren't fueling the fire. A more traditional means of minimizing fiber in vegetables is to not remove it but initiate its digestion by cellulase-producing microbes through fermentation prior to consumption. I may be teaching some fermentation classes in the future, we'll see what happens.
Thanks for your interest in holistic nutrition!
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