addressalign-toparrow-leftarrow-rightbackbellblockcalendarcameraccwcheckchevron-downchevron-leftchevron-rightchevron-small-downchevron-small-leftchevron-small-rightchevron-small-upchevron-upcircle-with-checkcircle-with-crosscircle-with-pluscontroller-playcrossdots-three-verticaleditemptyheartexporteye-with-lineeyefacebookfolderfullheartglobegmailgooglegroupshelp-with-circleimageimagesinstagramFill 1light-bulblinklocation-pinm-swarmSearchmailmessagesminusmoremuplabelShape 3 + Rectangle 1ShapeoutlookpersonJoin Group on CardStartprice-ribbonprintShapeShapeShapeShapeImported LayersImported LayersImported Layersshieldstartickettrashtriangle-downtriangle-uptwitteruserwarningyahoo

Re: [atheists-27] Intriguing new Weltanaschawoong

From: Carl S.
Sent on: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:55 PM

Yeah, great idea, ban libertarianism under pain of death! Well, now that that issue is off the table, this is the perfect moment to broach a subject I've been eager to discuss for some time now. It's a captivating new concept called "Freedomology”. 

You see, it's based on the concept that the only individual biological cells are entitled to rights and bound by duties. Tissues, organs and organisms are abstract concepts imposed by totalitarian ideology for by purpose of extracting surplus value.

More details in my next poszt. Carl


2013/3/23 Mathew Goldstein <[address removed]>
A good policy change for Maryland would be to allow construction of communal solar panel arrays.  Individual rooftops can be small, angled too much or too little, and may not face the sun much of the day, or may be shaded.  Erecting larger solar panel arrays that are then shared by a group of households can be more efficient.

I got a solar panel quote for my roof some months ago under a rental arrangement and I decided that it is not price competitive yet.  I pay extra for wind power electric and carbon offsets natural gas.  Some people no doubt are also willing to pay more now for obtaining some independence from the grid.  But my bet is that the solar technology will continue to improve, so I am going to spend my money on a rain garden now and maybe some years from now I will revisit solar again.  

Part of the problem may be with extra cost for permits and inspections.  But Germany also subsidizes solar totaling more than $130 billion, doing things like setting minimum rates utilities must pay for solar power from solar power producers.  They are phasing out the subsidies, having concluded that they are inefficient.  Germany’s minister of economics and technology, called the spiraling solar subsidies a “threat to the economy.”  On short, overcast winter days, Germany’s 1.1 million solar-power systems can generate no electricity at all.  Despite the massive investment, solar power accounts for only about 0.3 percent of Germany’s total energy.  By the end of the century, Germany’s $130 billion solar panel subsidies will have postponed world temperature increases by 23 hours.  However, because Germany is part of the European Union Emissions Trading System, the actual effect of extra solar panels in Germany leads to no CO2 reductions, because total emissions are already capped. Instead, the Germans simply allow other parts of the EU to emit more CO2.  Each job created by German green-energy policies costs an average of $175,000—considerably more than job creation elsewhere in the economy, such as infrastructure or health care.

The bottom line is this:  Solar panel technology still needs to be improved to be effective enough to make a difference.

On Mar 23, 2013, at 9:24 PM, Don Wharton <[address removed]> wrote:

Chad,
Yes the general support of atheists for science means we support the scientific consensus on the environment. There is nothing in the Bible saying that God wants them to support fossil fuel companies against this consensus. However, that is one of the contentious battles we have with many of those who are religious.
I have been impressed with the dramatic market achievements of the Germans on solar energy. One of our proposed questions to the DC candidates at our forum: Germans install solar energy systems on residential roofs for about $2 per peak watt. In DC multiple vendors are able to do it for $4 per peak watt or slightly less. A major difference is that in Germany there are no required permits and inspections reducing costs by about $2,000 on average. There is a web based form that needs to be filled in no more than two hours. A German installation is typically done in two weeks or less. The complexity of the American process can requires much more time and higher profit margins. What would you advocate to bring DC costs down to something closer to the average in Germany?
A big part of the difference is this differential in permitting and inspection costs. Much of it is also lack of experience. Another big part is the time spent in the sales effort in acquiring customers. Of course, a big fat part of the differential is a difference in the net profit margin. Obviously with a much longer sales cycle (perhaps six months instead of two weeks) a bigger profit margin is required.
I think this is again an area where we need to get out of debating mode and push the political process. This is especially so if we can get electricity that is cheaper than what we now pay for from the grid. The technology is near the point where that can be what we get. All we need is a range of governmental policy changes to get it done. Washington DC has enormous roof area. Many of our office buildings are of the same or similar height. That means those roofs are not shaded by other buildings. This is an ideal city to become the solar revolution city in our region.
Don
From: Chad <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Saturday, March 23,[masked]:16 PM
Subject: Re: [atheists-27] AND no Anti-Liberarianism till Sunday

Don,
You asked about what values we may share as atheists specifically within this group. Surely among our numbers there is no quarrel concerning the axioms of the natural world and the falseness of religion. However, personal values concerning what we do individually to address environmental issues, animal welfare issues, to raising our children would be of particular interest to me. As a bleeding heart liberal vegetarian with a toddler I would wade right into such topics.
Chad


Don Wharton <[address removed]> wrote:




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Don Wharton ([address removed]) from DC Atheists Meetup.
To learn more about Don Wharton, visit his/her member profile
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages

Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Mathew Goldstein ([address removed]) from DC Atheists Meetup.
To learn more about Mathew Goldstein, visit his/her member profile

People in this
Meetup are also in:

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy