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Re: [atheists-27] Civility

From: Joseph B
Sent on: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:21 PM
It's almost laughably silly to make the argument that women are so thoroughly oppressing men institutionally... I mean maybe you could make that argument for say a widespread cultural perception that men are less capable of raising children hence their losses in custody battles, or say the cultural perception that Asian men are emasculate/ effeminate nerds (but even here this is sustained by cultural practices within the community, and mass media, not so much women and still not directed to men in general)... 

There are no women monopolized fields that comes to my head that presents significant barriers to entry for men, with the exception of maybe the pay differential in the porn industry. To ask an a priori commitment from an oppressed group to not oppress their oppressors to me is about as necessary as voter id laws. If the number of cases you have is like one fraud in the millions of people that vote yearly, then yea, it's pretty much a none issue. 

My two cents. 


On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Robert W Ahrens <[address removed]> wrote:
Woody, that specific word, the C word, to avoid typing it again, is not only meant as a pejorative, but it is meant to shut down the conversation.  It is used, purposefully, as a method of STOPPING women from speaking.  To shut them up.

Guys like Carl use these tactics all the time, because to them, the idea that women should have a say in how society works is anathema.  So again, they've got to shut them up.

Women NEED an organized political structure to fight the ingrained social misogyny of today's society.  Without that, they'll never get ahead.  They have to fight the organized hatred and out and out hostility of today's Republican Party and the laws against women and their independence that are a hallmark of Republican policy today.

Men like Carl cannot abide that, and use the idea of a false reverse discrimination to try to stem that tide.  It isn't reverse discrimination, it is equality.

Same, obviously, for atheists and gays.  We are all in that same boat together!

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 21, 2013, at 11:30 AM, Woody Lipinski <[address removed]> wrote:

Diana,

are identify with all women and take responsibilities for their words and behavior? The person wrote about a group of women who are responsible for feminists rhetorics and identify with their offensive words against men.

I am from Poland and on constructions sites, where I was working some people called me Polak, a very offensive word in America, and I responded that I do not identify with Polkas in America.  They labeled me wrongly. I made joke and them about the term and they were angry of me. 

How you can be angry and feel cringe if the meaning does not apply to you?

Woody



On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Diana Lynn <[address removed]> wrote:
It's about respect.  Some words are horribly offensive to women.  I'm quite open-minded, but the C-word (for instance) makes me cringe.  (As does calling us "whores."  Guys can have sex freely, but when women do, we're "whores.")  So use respect and don't use those words.  Thanks. 


On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Woody Lipinski <[address removed]> wrote:
Rob,

why you are so exited about bad words. Ugly words are human expression and used for many reasons.  For me the person can have serious arguments against expression of some feminists that are more offensive in meanings than one his ugly word.

Do you watch any comedian or speaker who are using often bad words?  If human life is always clean and pretty? We have to deal with bad things too.

Woody



On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Robert W Ahrens <[address removed]> wrote:
If people cannot maintain a civil tone without ugly nasty name calling, then we deserve not to have a discussion group, it is then merely a shouting match. 

Woody, calling women the C word is exactly that, ugly, nasty and does NOT advance the discussion, it closes it down!  

Which is exactly what it is intended to do. Which is why we cannot tolerate it. 

Sent from my iPhone 4S!

On Aug 21, 2013, at 7:53 AM, Woody Lipinski <[address removed]> wrote:

Don,

you will kill your forum for discussion if you started censure human being expression by labeling incivility or civility and you do not let person to defend reason for such expression.  Let people take responsibility for their words not you. Are you able to tolerate other points of view and variety of human expressions or not?

Woody




On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Don Wharton <[address removed]> wrote:
Obviously I have been forced to respond to the recent incivility.  I will not guarantee that the person involved will not return to our on-line community.  In fact I made it clear that I will consider inviting the person back if that could make sense based on contrition and understanding from that person.
 
We are not a social work group.  However, if we can succeed in moving people toward social values that work for them and the rest of society it is worthwhile spending some time in responding with our best wisdom and compassion.
 
Don




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