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Re: "Leaving The Discussion" Re: [nightlife-404] SRF Player - Rundschau vom[masked] this trailer is about the contribution of Zurich expats to this

From: Andreas
Sent on: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:50 AM
Actually I never really cared how the Swiss feel about Expats. Sorry.


From: John peter mary ingor Wubbe <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26,[masked]:53 AM
Subject: Re: "Leaving The Discussion" Re: [nightlife-404] SRF Player - Rundschau vom[masked] this trailer is about the contribution of Zurich expats to this

Well the discussion finally gets quality, thank you Patrick W,
but for all of you out there that want to leave this.
Below on every email you did get till now it was written how to do so
unfortunally you did not see it till now, so please use your personal settings and do not blame us or meetup not to have the possibility to leave,
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages

have a nice day to all of you

john

On 26 February[masked]:47, Jack Vincent <[address removed]> wrote:
This email thread is over the top, so I'm leaving the group.  Unfortunately meetup does not have a "leave the discussion" option.

I humbly don't expect to be missed, as I only made about three meetings in about 18 months.  But it was nice to be up to date with the group and occasionally make a meeting.  

Hope the group continues to thrive, and best regards,
Jack





On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Patrick W wrote:


Dear All,

The debate about events/drinks and whether or not to pay for it were interesting however in the whole correspondence so far I am missing how Expats will be better integrated in Switzerland and how Swiss feel better connected with expats. I am not sure what the concept of the city of Zurich and the Canton is. Of course integration/immigration are highly political topics and this group could for instance start a discussion on the stricter criteria to get a swiss pass, what is the use of Zuri-dutsch, are 7 million people too much for Switzerland etc. Can the canton organize free courses of Zuri-deutsch to all expats - this seems more efficient to integrate rather than paying/subsiding drinks etc.

To contribute positively to the discussion, hereby an overview of famous Dutch sociologists who ranked each country on a number of dimensions.

Power distance
This dimension deals with the fact that all individuals in societies are not equal – it expresses the attitude of the culture towards these inequalities amongst us.
Power distance is defined as the extent to which the less powerful members of institutions and organisations within a country expect and accept that power is distributed unequally.

At 26, German speaking Switzerland sits in the lower rankings of PDI – i.e. a society that believes that inequalities amongst people should be minimized. This means that the following characterizes the German Swiss style: Being independent, hierarchy for convenience only, equal rights, superiors accessible, coaching leader, management facilitates and empowers. Power is decentralized and managers count on the experience of their team members. Employees expect to be consulted. Control is disliked and attitude towards managers are informal and on first name basis. Communication is direct and participative.

On this dimension, there is a vast difference with the French speaking part of Switzerland, which scores a PDI of 70 (very similar to France), which means that people accept a hierarchical order in which everybody has a place and which needs no further justification. Hierarchy in an organisation is seen as reflecting inherent inequalities, centralization is popular, subordinates expect to be told what to do and the ideal boss is a benevolent autocrat. Challenges to the leadership are not well-received.

Individualism
The fundamental issue addressed by this dimension is the degree of interdependence a society maintains among its members. It has to do with whether people´s self-image is defined in terms of “I” or “We”.
In Individualist societies people are supposed to look after themselves and their direct family only. In Collectivist societies people belong to ‘in groups’ that take care of them in exchange for loyalty.

German and French speaking Switzerland score relatively high on this dimension, 69 resp. 64 and are therefore considered an Individualistic society. This means there is a high preference for a loosely-knit social framework in which individuals are expected to take care of themselves and their immediate families only. In individualistic societies offence causes guilt and a loss of self-esteem, the employer/employee relationship is a contract based on mutual advantage, hiring and promotion decisions are supposed to be based on merit only, management is the management of individuals.

Masculinity / Femininity
A high score (masculine) on this dimension indicates that the society will be driven by competition, achievement and success, with success being defined by the winner / best in field – a value system that starts in school and continues throughout organisational behaviour.
A low score (feminine) on the dimension means that the dominant values in society are caring for others and quality of life. A feminine society is one where quality of life is the sign of success and standing out from the crowd is not admirable. The fundamental issue here is what motivates people, wanting to be the best (masculine) or liking what you do (feminine).

Rankings for German speaking Switzerland (72)  and the French speaking of the country (58) indicate a masculine society – highly success oriented and driven, albeit that in the German speaking part the impact is much more noticeable. In masculine countries, people “live in order to work”, managers are expected to be decisive, and the emphasis is on equity, competition and performance. Conflicts are resolved by fighting them out.


Uncertainty avoidance    
The dimension Uncertainty Avoidance has to do with the way that a society deals with the fact that the future can never be known: should we try to control the future or just let it happen? This ambiguity brings with it anxiety and different cultures have learnt to deal with this anxiety in different ways.  The extent to which the members of a culture feel threatened by ambiguous or unknown situations and have created beliefs and institutions that try to avoid these is reflected in the UAI score.

French speaking Switzerland scores 70 on this dimension and thus has a strong preference for avoiding uncertainty. At 56, German speaking Switzerland scores lower, but can still be considered high on UAI.
Countries exhibiting high uncertainty avoidance maintain rigid codes of belief and behaviour and are intolerant of unorthodox behaviour and ideas. In these cultures there is an emotional need for rules (even if the rules never seem to work) time is money, people have an inner urge to be busy and work hard, precision and punctuality are the norm, innovation may be resisted, security is an important element in individual motivation. Decisions are taken after careful analysis of all available information.

Long term orientation
The long term orientation dimension is closely related to the teachings of Confucius and can be interpreted as dealing with society’s search for virtue,the extent to which a society shows a pragmatic future-oriented perspective rather than a conventional historical short-term point of view.

The Swiss score 40, making it a short term orientation culture. Societies with a short-term orientation generally exhibit great respect for traditions, a relatively small propensity to save, strong social pressure to “keep up with the Joneses”, impatience for achieving quick results, and a strong concern with establishing the Truth i.e. normative. Western societies are typically found at the short-term end of this dimension, as are the countries of the Middle East.

Cheers


Subject: Re: [nightlife-404] SRF Player - Rundschau vom[masked] this trailer is about the contribution of Zurich expats to this
From: [address removed]
To: [address removed]
Date: Tue, 26 Feb[masked]:21:20 -0500

yes Craig,

that is the risk you always have when you agree on this kind of things. More important is that we as a group are recognised as willing to integrate, willing to pay taxes, BUT have difficulties with the SWISS authorities for that.

That is why the Bund, Simonetta Sommaruga,wants to do more efforts to keep us, integrate, help to feel welcome. the Kanton Zurich, Julia Morais has asked us Züri eXpats to help with this message going out.

For that the play EXPATS at theatre Neumarkt, today the Rundschau in SF1. The message is that there are also well educated expats that are good for the SWISS economy, and are needed to be convinced to stay.

That is why we the Züri eXpats, so YOU can bring in your opinion how things can go better to achieve that target.

have a nice day.

ps we will only sent out one message a week from now on
so that spam stops.
The Agenda will no longer sent out reminders. So look for the Sunday to see what comes in the week. apologise for the frequency till

On 26 February[masked]:53, Craig <[address removed]> wrote:
Groan! More shoddy and unbalanced journalism from Swiss TV where they make up a story and then find a group of people to validate their prejudice. Completely ignoring all the well integrated and German speaking non-natives here. 

I suppose next week they will interview some Yugoslavs in prison and conclude all Yugoslavs are criminals. 

Craig

Sent from my iPad

On 25 Feb 2013, at 23:04, John peter mary ingor Wubbe <[address removed]> wrote:

Einwanderer auf Zeit: Privilegiert und schlecht integriert

Sie sind gut ausgebildet, verdienen viel, sprechen meist kaum Deutsch und leben nur auf Zeit in der Schweiz - so genannte Expats. Für die Schweizer Wirtschaft sind sie ein wichtiger Faktor, doch zunehmend werden auch kritische Stimmen laut. Expats profitieren von Steuerprivilegien, integrieren sich kaum und leben in ihren Parallelwelten.
As some of you probalby can not open it , it is about expats in CH and how difficult it is to integrate, AND yes if you see the trailer it is with ME John Wubbe
in it  
 




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        \ \ | / /
          ( o  o )
----ooO- (_) -Ooo------------------------

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

Kind regards

John P M Wubbe

Zürich// Bruxelles/ Den Haag

Disclaimer : indien deze mail niet voor u beoeld is dan moet deze niet verder geleid of gebruikt worden en geheel verwijderd worden van de data houder waarop deze elektronische boodschap is opgeslagen

DISCLAIMER: Diese Email enthält vertrauliche Informationen, die teilweise oder komplett gesetzlich geschützt sind. Sie ist ausschließlich für den genannten Empfänger bestimmt. Sollte diese Email aufgrund einer falschen Adresse oder eines Übertragungsfehlers fehlgeleitet worden sein, so informieren Sie bitte den Absender entsprechend per Email. Falls Sie nicht der rechtmäßige Empfänger sind, sind Sie nicht befugt, diese Email zu verwenden, ihren Inhalt publik zu machen, zu kopieren, drucken oder sich auf diese Email zu beziehen.

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