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Re: [ljc] Looking for JavaEE gurus/enthusiasts

From: Luigi B.
Sent on: Friday, June 22, 2012 6:50 PM
That's a good point, Somay. In fact - again my impression - for many people JEE = EJB (actually worse, EJB2). As we all know, the situation is very different now as the component model has evolved considerably with EJB3, and so have containers.

Now, talking about the context of my post: within the Adopt a JSR program, I take care of JSR346, which is Context and Depency Injection for JEE (yes, it's part of JEE and I have an interest in it). It's essentially an effort to standardize a component model similar to what Spring and Guice offer. It is a rather good effort if you ask me, but a complex one (also fraught with political peril). JEE6 introduced CDI version 1.0, JEE7 will include CDI 1.1 with many improvements, notably (from my user point of view) this time everything should work more consistently across containers and also there should be more support for SE. If you don't know already, the currently most used CDI implementations work in Java SE and obviously in Servlet containers (e.g. Tomcat). Most important thing in all this is that in my experience of the last few months I've come to realize that user comments do help the EG and do have an impact.  
I was thinking before I started that with all the Spring experts in the LJC, this could be a subject with a rather wide interest, whereas I've come to realize that it is not, or at least that's the way it looks to me. Anyway, hopefully after reading my rants, you've taken an immediate interest in JEE7 and now there will be volunteers in abundance :-) That would be actually great, and I really believe that all help is good.

Cheers,
Luigi

p.s. Gerald, thanks again for replying... I have to say that I liked the first version of your post better. Concise, to the point, fun!



From: Somay <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Thursday, June 21,[masked]:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ljc] Looking for JavaEE gurus/enthusiasts

I would like to add that many java developers are actually working on some of the technologies under the JavaEE umbrella without realising it.

Do you have experience in web services, JMS, Web Developments (Servlets, JSPs, Tag libraries...), containers (tomcat, weblogic, websphere, jboss...)? Your experience will be useful in looking at the new java enterprise edition standards. This list is in no way complete, you can find out more here:

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaee/tech/index.html

If you don't have experience in specific area and would like to learn as you go that will be useful too.

Somay



On 21 Jun 2012, at 00:19, Martijn Verburg <[address removed]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I suspect a classic case of not enough context giving rise to a
> mis-interpretation here. Common enough on a maling list where context
> is hard to deduce :-).
>
> I think it's clear that there has been a shocking lack of JavaEE
> participation in the past but there's a chance to change that going
> forwards to the benefit of all of us. Heck, we all suffer if well
> meaning ivory tower architects get it dead wrong right? ;-)
>
> We've had a couple of volunteers who signed up in the last two days to
> investigate the websockets std as well as the overall JavaEE 7
> umbrella spec so we can vote with more technical gravitas on those
> areas. Once they have some real empirical/concrete findings they'll
> share that at the adoptajsr.java.net project for everyone to discuss.
>
> It's one of those voting/democracy dilemas though, if you don't
> participate then you won't affect change. So if you are involved in
> JavaEE or Spring (which roughly sits on top of/complements JavaEE)
> then please do take some time to improve your future.  I appreciate
> the temptation not to, I mean after all I put on my Diabolical
> Developer beanie and post an almost daily What Than Failure for fun!
> But it would actually be better if I spent that time testing a JavaEE
> standard under development and improving it for future developers,
> food for thought for many of us perhaps :-).
>
> Cheers,
> Martijn
>
> On 21 June[masked]:05, Gerald Loeffler <[address removed]> wrote:
>> Richard,
>>
>> i hear your frustration about community contribution to the Java
>> standards, which has been painfully low from the first day of the JCP.
>> There are of course good reasons for that, but maybe this is not the
>> place to discuss them (a JCP mailing list would be more appropriate).
>> However, venting your anger by being condescending about my post is
>> not a solution.
>>
>> My good-natured allusion to Luigi's XML-speak shouldn't have
>> distracted you from the content of that XML tag (disclaimer: irony!)
>> which was a heart-felt praise (without going into any detail) for the
>> elegance of the JavaEE 6 programming model, which indeed, as Luigi
>> said, is a huge step in the "right" direction. I've also tried to
>> convey that software development professionals unfortunately need to
>> be somewhat narrow in the technologies they embrace, as they need to
>> invest considerable time, money, brain capacity and passion into these
>> technologies in order to master them. My posting made it clear that i
>> chose to make that investment into JavaEE, which directly challenged
>> Luigis's statement that there is "not much interest at all among ljc
>> members for jee".
>>
>> Now that's a very long posting to express the same sentiments as in my
>> original contribution, which were important enough for me to want to
>> state, but not important enough to write an essay about: is that
>> verbosity really needed to preserve your cherished "standard of
>> discourse" on this list?
>>
>>  cheers
>>  gerald
>>
>> On 20 Jun 2012, at 18:18, Richard Warburton <[address removed]> wrote:
>>
>>>> <denial>i'm seriously interested - and heavily emotionally and
>>>> intellectually invested - in JavaEE and am absolutely enthused by JavaEE
>>>> 6!</denial>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.gerald-loeffler.net
>>>
>>> There's a load of standards in the JavaEE space that could, at time of
>>> conception, been vastly improved with open and constructive feedback
>>> from the wider community.  That's still a problem today, and still a
>>> problem on an ongoing basis.  In the core Java space we've been very
>>> successful in getting a lot of feedback and assistance to Expert
>>> Groups on several JSRs, especially 335 and 310 and JCP members are
>>> actively serving on several other Expert groups and trying to move
>>> towards a status of community-driven, rather than vendor-driven
>>> standards.  We're keen to try to extend this effort out to other areas
>>> of the JCP.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately when you post an unnecessarily immature and snarky
>>> response to a thread that was, root cause, an honest enquiry it really
>>> does frustrate me.  Most of the mails that go here are either about
>>> events or entirely reasonable discussion of technology in general, and
>>> Java in particular.  We have a level of discourse that standards far
>>> above the average for an internet based forum, where people frequently
>>> choose snark and immaturity over informed discussion of the issues.
>>> I'd like to see this standard maintained, rather than descend slowly
>>> towards the level of Reddit or Hacker News.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>>  Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
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