addressalign-toparrow-leftarrow-rightbackbellblockcalendarcameraccwcheckchevron-downchevron-leftchevron-rightchevron-small-downchevron-small-leftchevron-small-rightchevron-small-upchevron-upcircle-with-checkcircle-with-crosscircle-with-pluscontroller-playcrossdots-three-verticaleditemptyheartexporteye-with-lineeyefacebookfolderfullheartglobe--smallglobegmailgooglegroupshelp-with-circleimageimagesinstagramFill 1launch-new-window--smalllight-bulblinklocation-pinm-swarmSearchmailmessagesminusmoremuplabelShape 3 + Rectangle 1ShapeoutlookpersonJoin Group on CardStartprice-ribbonprintShapeShapeShapeShapeImported LayersImported LayersImported Layersshieldstartickettrashtriangle-downtriangle-uptwitteruserwarningyahoo

Re: [ljc] TDD Research

From: @sleepyfox
Sent on: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:11 AM
There are some problems with the approach that is being taken:

> I'm planning to research about applying TDD techniques in Requirement Engineering in order to express user requirements. 

'Requirements Engineering' is a phrase reminiscent of the 80's and 90's and seems oddly anachronistic in our world of modern software development; the consideration of discrete steps like this in the waterfall model are not only a modelling fallacy, but also in an Agile project are mixed in together into a form of work (Story flow) from which you cannot 'un-stir the milk from the coffee'. I doubt whether one could recognise anything in modern development practices as matching what used to be taught as 'Requirements Engineering'. 

> In order to do that, I will need to access the project documentation and interview with the project team. However, it won't be necessary to access the source code. 

I'm unsure how one could analyse the effectiveness of TDD without considering the whole development life cycle, especially code. Just considering requirements analysis is missing most of the benefit, one of the principle positive outcomes of TDD is higher quality code, which can be measured, but if one only considers documentation, this will not be apparent. 

Of course, looking at documentation is going to be problematic too, as Agile development methods concentrate on getting the job done, not generating documentation artefacts...

> I am looking for a company where I could use some project requirements, apply the traditional requirement engineering practices and then apply the TDD techniques and with an evaluation process try to see the differences. 

The problem with this is that (like any psychology experiment) there is the observer effect to deal with. One can't give the same team the same problem to solve two different ways and get accurate results, because the second time around the team knows more than they did the first time around (having already worked the problem) and thus the results have been contaminated. If one gives the problem to two separate teams then one has to normalise for differences between the teams, which in practice is not possible because of the difficulty in objectively measuring individual and team performance. 

In summary, I believe that the stated flaws render the value of the project as originally envisioned untenable. Sirin, if you're reading this, please come along to the LSCC or the LJC and talk to some of the senior people about what modern software development actually entails, we'll be happy to share our knowledge and point you in the right direction, I think that with some real world experience of what TDD and Agile software development really looks like, you'll be able to re-craft your project into something that actually makes sense and is of benefit to you and the wider community also.

N.
-- 


On 7 August[masked]:18, Barry Cranford <[address removed]> wrote:
Hey guys,

If anyone is interested, a friend of ours is looking for a company where she could use some project requirements, apply the traditional requirement engineering practices and then apply TDD techniques and with an evaluation process try to see the differences. 

I hope you don't mind me passing this on, but if it's something you'd be interested in please let Sirin know here: [address removed].  I would be extremely grateful if you could cc me also. 

I will ask Sirin to update the whole mailing list with results if it helps an LJC company.

Also as we have such strong links with the students and universities through the GDC. I wonder if this isn't something we could do more of. What do people think? e.g. if you have certain things you'd like researched then let me know and I can post it out to the GDC list. It would be great to be able to use the two communities to help more (especially as so many of you do so much to help mentor students). 

Cheers,
Barry

 

Begin forwarded message:

From: Sirin Sevinc <[address removed]>
Date: 7 August[masked]:32:09 GMT+01:00
To: Barry Cranford <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: Case Study for my dissertation

Hi Barry,

Thank you so much!!! Here is a little info about my research : 

My name is Sirin Sevinc. I work as a Systems Analyst/Architect in a consultancy company. I'm also enrolled in part-time Msc studies in Business Systems and Analysis course at City University in London. I have finished all the modules and now I have started working on my dissertation. 

In my dissertation I'm planning to research about applying TDD techniques in Requirement Engineering in order to express user requirements. This project will help understand and review the current popular requirement techniques. The results of this research will have benefit in requirement management and will aim to provide a solution to requirement traceablility problem. It will provide a set of guidelines which will aim to help various professions in a software team from business analysts to developers and testers.

I am looking for a company where I could use some project requirements, apply the traditional requirement engineering practices and then apply the TDD techniques and with an evaluation process try to see the differences. In order to do that, I will need to access the project documentation and interview with the project team. However, it won't be necessary to access the source code. I am planning to use Fitnesse and some of the similar tools in order to express requirements as executable statements and provide guidelines so that the company could also benefit in other projects.

It would be great if you could consider supporting me in this reasearch. If there are any questions please contact me.

Regards
Sirin Sevinc






--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Barry Cranford ([address removed]) from LJC - London Java Community.
To learn more about Barry Cranford, visit his/her member profile
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed]

Our Sponsors

  • Our Blog

    Read the latest news from the LJC

  • RecWorks Ltd

    Fixing Tech Recruitment using the Power of Community

  • jClarity

    Java/JVM Performance Analysis Tools & mentoring for Java related matters

  • LJC Aggrity

    Our LJC Aggrity site contains blog posts from our members

  • LJC Book Club

    Our Book club with book reviews from our members

  • Devoxx UK

    Java Community Conference in collaboration with the LJC, 8-10th June 16

  • SkillsMatter

    "Host, help organise, promote, film many of our meetings."

  • IBM

    Build Enterprise-grade apps at start-up speed.

  • New Relic

    New Relic makes sense of billions of metrics a day in real time.

  • Hazelcast

    Hazelcast is the leader in operating in-memory computing.

  • Java.Net

    We are an official Java User Group recognised by Oracle's JUG program

  • JRebel

    Free 3 month J-Rebel license.

  • O'Reilly

    40% discount on printed books and 50% on e-books.

People in this
Meetup are also in:

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy