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D. M.
user 13079787
Rosemount, MN
Post #: 4
Can he please kicked off the group? The meetup, for me, is to meet other atheists, not 'debate' the religious.. Just asking.

I would rather Jordan respect that this is a Meetup group and a place for members to discuss the events. There are enough places we go where we have to deal with all of the same tired explanations and justifications and debates that we have run into all of our fucking lives, or at least all of our atheist lives.

Jordan, please go somewhere else if you want to have a debate on this. The internet is big and this is our small little corner. If you don't want to respect our space, I want you to be kicked out of here as well.

Couldn't agree more.
A former member
Post #: 25
Jordan, I received your private message. I think keeping your comments in a forum setting is a better way to go. The answers of others are not duplicated and individual energy is minimized in responding should points already have been made. I'm not sure of your strategy or aims, but I'm hoping you're not simply emailing folks at random via the meetup system asking them to explain why they are atheists.

If you are, I don't think you should be allowed to use the meetup system to contact others fishing for answers you're not really interested in to begin with. From how this discussion has gone, it seems that you're more interested in baiting others and then responding by simply stating what you believe / Christian dogma as a response.

Many of us were Christians and left and thus are familiar with the dogma. Repeating the ideas of original sin and fallen human nature won't get very far. The proposed idea that Christ came to free you from your sins does not mean that the underlying flawed nature of humans must be true. Each is an independent claim to be evaluated. There's also the lacking evidence that the world used to be better than it is, or that for a short time humans were morally perfect and only descended to a "lesser state" after some first offense.

In any case, as someone said above, there are many ways to learn about what the side of non-belief thinks about various arguments and topics. Repeating what has been written by those more educated and studied is probably not a good use of time and energy. Wanting to learn is fantastic. Just google some things or read some blogs and the comments generated. Listen to some debates. Those are good ways to become familiar with why some don't believe.

Jack C.
user 3043821
Minneapolis, MN
Post #: 59
I received an e-mail from Jordan asking me to explain why I'm an atheist and to tell him what atheism is all about. I did not realize at the time he had sent others the same or similar e-mails. This was my response:

<<Hi Jordan,

I'm responding to the e-mail you sent yesterday, but have seen that since then you've started a thread on the Minnesota Atheists Meetup discussions page.

If you're really interested in learning why I'm an atheist and what atheism is all about, I'd be happy to meet you at a coffee shop or have lunch at a sandwich shop or other restaurant for an exchange of ideas. For it to be a fair and fruitful discussion, I think it would be necessary for us both to go into it with no expectation that either of us will convince the other of his viewpoint. Alternately, I could recommend some websites and books that would give you some background. I'll mention one in particular you might find interesting: Doubt by Jennifer Michael Hecht. It is a history of questioning religion from 600 BCE to the 20th century, and both believers and nonbelievers have found it to be an enlightening survey of freethought and atheism.

If on the other hand you have joined our Meetup group solely to air your opposing viewpoint and contradict ours, I can see no reason for you to remain a member. I am very reluctant to ban members from our group, but as an analogy, if you were a person who joined a yoga Meetup simply to denounce the practice, I'd feel you had no place in that group.

I will monitor the thread you've started hoping that my first supposition is correct, and look forward to your thoughtful response to this e-mail.

Jack C.>>

I only ban members as a last resort, and am awaiting his reply. I'm also aware that I have a responsibility to the members of this Meetup group, however, so if anyone is harassed by e-mails from another member, please let me know and I will take action.
A former member
Post #: 2
{sigh} This is such a rule #2 violation*, but I'll try again.

Jordan - Do you believe Zeus is a deity? Yes or no. If not, why not.

You pasted some grade school primer regarding the history of ancient greek mythology as your bullshit answer. Try again.

*Rule #2: You can't reason someone out of what he didn't reason into.
Linda B.
Minneapolis, MN
Post #: 81
It's simple, god is a concept I (we) don't buy. You're not going to change my mind. It's actually more of a challenge to think for yourself then to be told what and how to think, but the answers make a lot more sense. Question everything and learn.
Daphne B
Minneapolis, MN
Post #: 1
I'd like to say that I'm not really sure that the Jordan Geffre on Facebook is the same person who's writing these messages. For one thing his Facebook page has absolutely no mention of religion (except a passing reference to pray for a family member who is ill).
A former member
Post #: 7
Hello All,
Thank you so much for your responses and the great resources. I am not on facebook at all so that is the wrong Jordan Geffre however, it has been a pleasure talking with you and thank you so much for your feedback. I hope everyone has a great day! Also, I know life can be hard and if you need any prayer at all please feel free to email me.
Love you all,
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