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Mailing List Archive

Subject Sender Date
Meetup BBQ on Sunday May 27 - Please RSVP https://www.meetup.com/Montere­y-County-Skeptics/events/25100­8939/ Susan G. May 22, 2018 12:35 AM
We now have a website! - Just to let you all know, Monterey County Skeptics along with the Guerrilla Skepticism on Wikipedia project (GSoW) and all the psychic operations I do have all joined forces to form About Time . We now have a website with all ki Susan G. Mar 28, 2018 11:49 PM
SkeptiCamp Videos and More - All the videos and all the photos from Yesterday's Monterey County Skeptic's SkeptiCamp have been uploaded for your viewing pleasure. The event was a giant success for us, we had great media outreach and 54 people attended, 48 stayed all day. The Susan G. Jan 8, 2017 7:12 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] RSVP to SkeptiCamp - Hi Peter - I hope you will stop by. There will be room! Deborah Jan 5, 2017 4:53 PM
Monterey County Weekly Write-up on Skepticamp - Hello all, I know you would want to see the great press that Monterey County Skeptics just received in the Monterey County Weekly (on-line) I'm very proud of the article and of the tone. Its very respectful to scientific skepticism and our miss Susan G. Jan 5, 2017 2:43 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] RSVP to SkeptiCamp - Susan, Peter W. Jan 5, 2017 9:07 AM
RSVP to SkeptiCamp - We have a great program all waiting for you this Saturday! This is our yearly conference and have a full day in store. Friday night we have a meet-and-greet at the Embassy Suites 6:30 and on. Special area reserved for us.  https://www.faceb Susan G. Jan 2, 2017 3:34 PM
SkeptiCamp Jan 7th Sign up now! - Just wanted to send you a reminder that on January 7th we are holding our third SkeptiCamp at the Community Justice Center (Monterey College of Law) on Saturday January 7th. We are going to have a meet and greet on Friday Jan 6th (location still being Susan G. Dec 18, 2016 11:56 PM
SkeptiCamp Jan 7th Sign up now! - Hey all. I don't see you signing up. This is the biggest event of the year!!!! We are putting a lot of time and money into this outreach project. Bringing some sanity to the Monterey Bay Area. Please help us out, firstly by registering yourself and spr Susan G. Dec 13, 2016 12:49 AM
SkeptiCamp Jan 7th Sign up now! - Hey all. I don't see you signing up. This is the biggest event of the year!!!! We are putting a lot of time and money into this outreach project. Bringing some sanity to the Monterey Bay Area. Please help us out, firstly by registering yourself and spr Susan G. Dec 13, 2016 12:49 AM
A call for papers for MCS and HAMBA - SkeptiCamp Jan 7, 2017 - Susan G. Sep 5, 2016 10:13 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Celebrate Pi Day with MCS - This means YOU - I plan to be there. Peter W. Peter W. Mar 13, 2016 5:16 PM
Celebrate Pi Day with MCS - This means YOU - I initially set up Pi-day to well... have an excuse to eat pie, but more importantly to do something different and to encourage those of you that are members of MCS (some for years) that rarely or never attend our normal meetups. Being a scient Susan G. Mar 12, 2016 8:58 AM
Meetup details changed: MCS SkeptiCamp Jan 1-2 - Attention MCS members.  We have limited seating for this event, the venue only holds 50 ~ seats, and we already have over 30 that have RSVPed.  We have over 100 members of MCS, most of which have never been our meetups. This is your chance, there is Susan G. Jan 1, 2016 10:55 AM
Venue Change Nov 11th moved to Gianni's Pizza on Lighthouse in PG - Same time Same bat channel Looks like Lopez's is closed due to it being a holiday. So we are moving the meetup tonight to Gianni's.     Susan G. Nov 11, 2015 4:11 PM
Monterey County SkeptiCamp 2016 - Susan G. Oct 28, 2015 9:33 PM
jb: (1) - Stirling G. Sep 23, 2015 1:43 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Updates for MCS - Dwight Apr 2, 2015 11:08 PM
Updates for MCS - This is an occasional blog update about Monterey County Skeptics. If you are receiving this email in error please unsubscribe from the MCS meetup group. http://montereycountyskeptics.­blogspot.com/2015/03/mcs-updat­es.html Susan G. Mar 31, 2015 8:34 PM
Now accepting contributions for Monterey County Skeptics - Hi Skeptics, As most of you know, a lot goes into making a Meetup great, and some of that greatness requires cash. There's a new feature on Meetup that makes it easy for everyone in our group to chip in and help cover our costs. Starting today, Susan G. Dec 24, 2014 12:30 PM
SkeptiCal is quickly approaching - Just a reminder. I will have a table at SkeptiCal this year for my GSoW and Skeptic Action projects, and several of us are going.  Tonight is the last day to get the discounted tickets.  So get over there tonight.  Also get the spaghetti lunch for $ Susan G. May 31, 2013 8:19 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Business Stuff about Meetup - but you should still read anyway - I'll throw in a few sheckels. Robin On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:39 PM, Susan Gerbic < [address removed] > wrote: Robin W. Mar 7, 2013 9:04 AM
Business Stuff about Meetup - but you should still read anyway - Hello all, The good news is that Steve is back and functioning with us again, judging from the poker night great fun. We are also now 101 members! Just wish more of you would stop lurking and start hanging out. Susan G. Mar 6, 2013 9:39 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] How to Vote meetup - Sorry my wife and I have been out of the loop lately. I have been putti Donny R. Nov 13, 2012 5:31 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Sunday Gianni's Meetup cancelled - Sorry, never saw this one.... Sent from my iPhone On Oct 28, 2012, at 2:08 PM, Susan Gerbic < Deborah Oct 29, 2012 6:28 AM
Sunday Gianni's Meetup cancelled - Sorry folks. I didn't get one confirm for today, so I'm just going to cancel it. I'm in Salinas and don't want to Susan G. Oct 28, 2012 2:08 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] How to Vote meetup - And I gotta work. Robin On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 11:06 AM, John Mount < [address removed] > wrote: Robin W. Oct 28, 2012 12:53 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] How to Vote meetup - sorry susan. sunday is chores day for me. laundry etc. john Sent from my iPhone On Oct 28, 2012 John M. Oct 28, 2012 11:05 AM
How to Vote meetup - I haven't heard from many of you. Seems that only Paulina is interested in going this afternoon and she lives here in Sa Susan G. Oct 28, 2012 8:38 AM
Halloween - NBC - 2:00pm Mark Edward on the Jeff Probst Show - Halloween NBC 2:00pm PST - MUST WATCH! http://www.facebook.com/events­/187648138026489/ Susan G. Oct 25, 2012 11:30 PM
New Meetup Change for Monterey County Skeptics - Hello all, Just a quick message that our Co-Founder Steve Wheeler has chosen to step down as an organizer for the group.  He will still be attending some of our functions but not in the way he has before.  I still clearly remember how we meet Susan G. Sep 27, 2012 7:23 PM
Leaving - So I will be leaving monterey on Sept 3. Susan that group you were talking about in San Angelo where is that? -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Zach A. Aug 23, 2012 5:34 PM
CampingSkeptically - Susan G. Jul 29, 2012 4:33 PM
Idea for meetup from Howard - A reminder to all that we also have a Facebook page for Monterey County Skeptics where a lot of the discussion goes on. Be sure to join. http://www.facebook.com/groups­/MCSkeptics/ This is from Howard, Susan G. Mar 24, 2012 10:37 AM
Deborah and Susan at the Mucky Duck Thursday Dec 8 5:15-6:30 - Do you dare have dinner with Deborah and Susan? Others have done so and some have lived to tell about it. Please RSVP so we know how big of a table to get. http://www.meetup.com/Monterey­-County-Skeptics/events/165869­9 Susan G. Dec 5, 2011 5:34 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] In Honor of Carl Sagan Day... We Got Your Wiki Back Carl! - Any skeptic who cannot recite Carl Segan essay "The Dragon in My  Garage"  should go back to skepticism 101.  It is a classic.  On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Susan Gerbic < Steve W. Nov 9, 2011 5:43 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] In Honor of Carl Sagan Day... We Got Your Wiki Back Carl! - Please take me off of your email list as I left the group two months ago. Thanks Sent from my iPhone On Nov 9, 2011, at 7:46 PM, Susan Gerbic < Damon O. Nov 9, 2011 4:54 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] In Honor of Carl Sagan Day... We Got Your Wiki Back Carl! - Please take me off of your email list as I left the group two months ago. Thanks Sent from my iPhone On Nov 9, 2011, at 7:46 PM, Susan Gerbic < Damon O. Nov 9, 2011 4:54 PM
In Honor of Carl Sagan Day... We Got Your Wiki Back Carl! - http://guerrillaskepticismonwi­kipedia.blogspot.com/2011/11/c­arl-sagan-day.html Susan G. Nov 9, 2011 4:46 PM
SkeptiCalCon April 21, 2012 - http://www.skepticalcon.org/ Mark your calendars now. Susan Susan G. Nov 8, 2011 8:19 AM
Monster Smash Roller Derby - This is happening this Saturday night. Come on gang lets do something different. Susan G. Oct 27, 2011 2:55 PM
Room Rate - If interested in attending this event, I have a room rate of $126 plus tax at the same hotel we stayed at during SkeptiCalCon. It is a DoubleTree (free cookies) right on the harbor, very pretty place. Nice quiet location, with a restaurant Susan G. Oct 27, 2011 2:53 PM
Fwd: Google Alert - "guerrilla skepticism" - Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: Google Alerts < [address removed] Susan G. Sep 14, 2011 11:56 AM
IIG testing Clairaudient ~ Watch via U-Stream - On Sunday, August 21, 2011 at 3:00pm PT the Independent Investigations Group will be streaming live the preliminary demonstration of a self described clairaudient. The claimant professes to be able to hear discussions about himself from up Susan G. Aug 17, 2011 6:57 PM
(no subject) - http://radiators.su/googlelink­.php simonetta Jul 29, 2011 12:41 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Skepticamp - Zach, I proposed this last year. I received little feedback from others. I still think it would be great, just you have to have people who want to work together to do it. Susan Sent from my iPhone On Dec 12, 2010, at 6:08 PM, Zach Aletheia Susan G. Dec 13, 2010 12:56 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Skepticamp - Here is a website about skepticamp http://skepticamp.org/wiki/Main_Page On Dec 12, 2010, at 18:06, Zach Aletheia wrote: > Hey I was wondering if anyone would want to try to set up a skepticamp.. > > > > -- > Please Note: I Zach A. Dec 12, 2010 6:08 PM
Skepticamp - Hey I was wondering if anyone would want to try to set up a skepticamp.. Zach A. Dec 12, 2010 6:06 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Harry Potter Night - Hi Suzanne, I'll take that extra ticket off your hands. ��My daughter will be��coming��along. �� Steve On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Suzanne Steve W. Nov 27, 2010 11:09 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Harry Potter Night - Hi all, FYI, Josh was the first to respond, so he's claimed the honor of buying my extra ticket? =) Suzanne On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Suzanne Kaasa < Suzanne Nov 27, 2010 10:58 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Harry Potter Night - Hi Suzanne, I still need a ticket. Can I buy your extra from you? Let me know. See you at 4:30 pm. Deborah On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Suzanne < Deborah Nov 27, 2010 10:53 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Harry Potter Night - I bought two tickets, but my friend isn't coming after all so if anyone still needs one I've got an extra. Suzanne On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Susan Gerbic-Forsyth < Suzanne Nov 27, 2010 9:36 AM
Harry Potter Night - Hello all, We are meeting at 4:30 at the Del Monte Shopping Center Theater. We are going to the 6:05 show so if you want to join us then you should Susan G. Nov 26, 2010 5:02 PM
anti-vax coming to a theater.... - http://skepticalteacher.wordpr­ess.com/2010/11/20/anti-vaccin­ation-psa-coming-to-a-theater-­near-you-literally/ Odd how Zach brought this up and suggested Susan G. Nov 21, 2010 7:50 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Need Meetup Place - p { margin: 0; } I'm not interested in the IIG, but I was at Peter B's yesterday late afternoon for a citizenship party, and it appeare Bill Nov 21, 2010 3:31 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccine - p { margin: 0; } Zach's response is nice in that it opens up the possibility of an evidence-based debate, which is the kind a group lik Bill Nov 21, 2010 3:01 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Need Meetup Place - Peter Bs has some booths that are pretty quiet and could fit a small group of us. Unless there's a game going on, it's probably pretty quiet during the afternoon and I'm guessing they wouldn't mind us hanging out a while (as long as we ord Suzanne Nov 21, 2010 2:32 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccine - Oh and don't be surprised if i don't try to get everyone in the group to get their flu shot (who can). Zach On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Zach Aletheia < Zach A. Nov 21, 2010 2:18 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccine - Yea I'll do that. Will have to wait until at least tomorrow. I partially know a lot about the vaccination thing because i prepared my self to do a lecture at a skeptics group i started in Iowa in case we couldn't find an expert to give the lecture Zach A. Nov 21, 2010 2:15 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccine - Hi Zach,�� If you write the article I will post it for you for now, at some point I will make the Blog open to very one in the group who��asked, but as I own the domain WWW.MONTEREYSKEPT Steve W. Nov 21, 2010 1:28 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccine - Zach, I would like you to write a blog for our site about this. Pretty please. Can you use my story I heard from Jennifer and then write how the stats don't show this to be true. Incl Susan G. Nov 21, 2010 12:21 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccine - Here is an article that says the drop is due to affluent parents not vaccinating. http://articles.latimes.com/20­09/mar/29/local/me-immunizatio­n29 Here is the immuniza Zach A. Nov 21, 2010 10:34 AM
RE: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - Very interesting Rick. And several points that I made. Very small country that would be hard to replicate. I don't think peop Susan G. Nov 21, 2010 8:01 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccine - No Zach, I think we are mostly in tune with you. Adam and I were talking about IIG ideas one day and I suggested that we should do fundraisers for Susan G. Nov 21, 2010 7:57 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccines - It is sad it has to be promoted. Like evolution it is settled, but we still have promote science as a way to know the world. I do not take the flu vac. Do Dan Nov 20, 2010 9:37 PM
RE: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - Should we copy Israel? Food for thought: US international a Rick Nov 20, 2010 8:47 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccines - So it sounds like no one like my idea about promoting vaccines? Zach A. Nov 20, 2010 8:23 PM
RE: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccines - I am terribly sorry about Lee-Ann's situation. Every medical cure has th Rick Nov 20, 2010 7:55 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Need Meetup Place - East Village I know has an area that they have bands in and such. How likely are they to allow a skeptic meetup? Would be a perfect place to meet, a Susan G. Nov 20, 2010 7:44 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccines - @mike i get the flu shot because i come in contact with many people and want to protect those people. Furthermore, i want to not get the flu because the flu sucks massively. @judy Healthy life styles don't prevent 30000 from dying each year fro Zach A. Nov 20, 2010 7:17 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Need Meetup Place - Their we Adam B. Nov 20, 2010 7:05 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Need Meetup Place - Sound like the Marina Library ��its not free however, I think it costs $10.00 for a group. �� �� Steve On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 6:13 PM, Susan Gerbic-Forsyth < Steve W. Nov 20, 2010 6:46 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Need Meetup Place - http://www.eastvillagecoffeelo­unge.com/ I also work with processcontol.com and this is a good place. Bronwyn C. Nov 20, 2010 6:42 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - All I can say is I read hard (pre internet days) and decided to vaccinate. My parents lived through t Bronwyn C. Nov 20, 2010 6:32 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - T e l Aviv is smaller than most mid-sized to large USA airports, and while this is do-able, it would not wash with the American Public, and would also Bronwyn C. Nov 20, 2010 6:15 PM
Need Meetup Place - Since everyone is all talkative at the moment just wanted to ask again if anyone can come up with a great place for us to hold our future IIG MC meetings? Susan G. Nov 20, 2010 6:13 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - oo o h cool! Thanks! Bronwyn Bronwyn C. Nov 20, 2010 5:52 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - Hemant Mehta, the friendly atheist.? He has a great blog:? http://friendlyatheist.com/ ? Robin On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Susan Gerbic-For Robin W. Nov 20, 2010 11:42 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Bronwyn - Bronwyn, You are MORE than welcome in our group!? We are very diverse and welcome people from all walks of life.? My comments and feelings about the TSA in general are not meant to be indicative of my feelings about individual employees.? P Mike G. Nov 20, 2010 9:34 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccines - p { margin: 0; } I think Mike and Adam are getting at something important. In fairness to Lee-Ann, she only said she was speaking from Bill Nov 20, 2010 9:32 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccines - I don't get flu vaccines because I'm not in an at-risk category.? However, I would not hesitate to get one if I were in such a category.? Having said that, I believe that proper vaccinations should be administered to those at risk; this includes, Mike G. Nov 20, 2010 9:20 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccines - Vaccinations may seem redunda Adam B. Nov 20, 2010 9:14 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - This is the most thrilling news I've had all day!? I can't wait to hear your perspective, Bronwyn!? Nice Welsh name there! ? Robin Welch On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 3:54 PM, Bronwyn Robin W. Nov 20, 2010 8:58 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccines - So sorry to hear your story, Lee-Ann!? I am not a big fun of vaccacination either.? I only took one Flu vaccine 3 years ago before I went to Northern California to visit my in-laws for Christmas.? It turned out I had a server flu a coupl user 1. Nov 20, 2010 8:54 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccines - also i would like to ask. Did your doctor determine that the vaccine was the cause of it? In my first response i assumed it but you didn't say your doctor said it was. You might be committing a post hoc ergo proctor hoc fallacy that the people who say Zach A. Nov 20, 2010 7:12 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccines - Well my response would be that the risks for your average person of getting what you got is extremely extremely rare and the benefits of getting the shot far out weigh that risk. First, we can help build herd immunity by getting flu shots, the flu btw kil Zach A. Nov 20, 2010 7:07 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccines - And before you ask... I was a perfectly healthy 35 year old, and was a vibrant, happy woman with no prior illnesses, or pre-existing conditions whatsoever. I had never received a flu shot before - and maybe I should never had.. On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 Lee-Ann A. Nov 20, 2010 2:25 AM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Vaccines - I can only speak from personal experience. I received a flu shot, under my managers orders at a gallery in Big Sur, right before the winter season 12 years ago, because he "couldn't afford anyone to get sick". After 3 days, I went totally blind. And Lee-Ann A. Nov 20, 2010 2:20 AM
Vaccines - I was listening to Skeptically Speaking podcast and they talked about vaccines. They said California has the lowest rates of vaccination in the country. Being that we are in California i was wondering if anyone has and ideas/wants to try to promoted good Zach A. Nov 19, 2010 9:35 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - A contractor?? Well I just don't think I'm going to be able to talk to you anymore. I mean, you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere!! Sent from my iPhone On Nov 19, 2010, at 5:20 PM, Suzanne &l John M. Nov 19, 2010 6:51 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - p { margin: 0; } Well, I'm also DoD, and I train (make that "orient") contractors. I'd like to work with expandors for a change. --- Bill Nov 19, 2010 6:03 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - But susan you know if we have wifi everywhere then we will affect everyone with electronic hypersenstivity syndrome(EHS). We wouldn't want that now would we? Zach A. Nov 19, 2010 5:36 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - I agree Bill, I'm not great with numbers but I can only imagine how you would hire/train people on the scale that you would need to do what Israel does. P Susan G. Nov 19, 2010 5:25 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - Y ou can call me anything but late for dinner. I hear you and I feel you. What we have is what every Middle Class person used to hav Bronwyn C. Nov 19, 2010 5:20 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - lol, I think I've got you all beat...not only do I work for the Department of Defense, but I'm a CONTRACTOR ? ;) Suzanne On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Jeff < Suzanne Nov 19, 2010 5:20 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - Sooooo John....you weren't actually writing this email on my taxpayer dime were you? Just checking. LOL Susan Susan G. Nov 19, 2010 5:08 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - I don't know who Hemant is, but I made PZ Meyers site a few months ago... (everyone who has already heard this please ignore, LOL). But I was pretty excit Susan G. Nov 19, 2010 5:06 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - p { margin: 0; } I heard about the Israeli security measures some months ago on NPR. Adam makes a good point. I just want to add this q Bill Nov 19, 2010 5:00 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - Welcome Bronwyn! Call I call you Bro? haha jk I work for County government. Everything hates us, they think we have bloated pen John M. Nov 19, 2010 4:52 PM
Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] Re: [Monterey-County-Skeptics] - T h ank you. I find that we are portrayed as beasts, but we are just people doing our jobs. I have loved being on Pharyngyla and Hemant's Bronwyn C. Nov 19, 2010 4:45 PM

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