The beauty of the UU framework is that we are each allowed to interpret the framework in whatever way we see fit, the statement is intentionally vague.  For some in my UU, spirit is Allah, or Jesus, or God, or divine energy, or angels or a quirk of evolution that dies when our bodies die.  While I do not believe in the other definitions, I also have no issue with their belief so long as they do not try to coerce me to agree with them or inflict their beliefs into the public sphere where their supernatural-based morality will have power in my life.  

 

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From: Linda <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12,[masked]:33 PM
Subject: RE: [NOVA-Atheists] UU churches

 

I share Kathryn’s concern.  I understand your spirit, Janelle – I have one of those too – but I’d want to know exactly what they mean by “encouraging spiritual growth.”  At the very least, it’s vague.

 

I think there’s a possibility the fellowship doesn’t know just what they mean by that, but this is the kind of thing that I’d like to see the UUs ponder and possibly change – just as they are moving from “church” to “fellowship” and “congregation”

 

From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Janelle
Sent: Wednesday, December 12,[masked]:22 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [NOVA-Atheists] UU churches

 

And to clarify, my spirit is not supernatural nor eternal.  It is a quirk of neurological evolution and will die when my body dies.

 

---

From: Kathryn Brooks <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12,[masked]:05 PM
Subject: Re: [NOVA-Atheists] UU churches

 

One of the seven principals of which Jannelle spoke gives me cause for concern; that of "...encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations." I don't believe in spirits, unless they are filling my glass. Also, a congregation is typically a group gathered for religious purposes.

On Dec 12, 2012, at 7:37 PM, Ellen Wingrove <[address removed]> wrote:

When we started up Beltway Atheists in 2005, one of the guiding principles was to provide a secular social outlet, recognizing that churches provide this. We didn't want to have lectures as a focus, like WASH or CFI, but to provide a different communal experience. For those who ARE interested in a lecture or formal discussion experience, WASH and CFI do a fine job of providing this. We also are quite involved in activism, so among these groups, you have a pretty well-rounded secular community experience.

On Wednesday, December 12, 2012, Janelle wrote:

My fellowship is led by a part-time minister.  He speaks twice a month and his sermons generally deal with issues of social justice, equanimity, aesthetics, etc.  Then 2 or three times a month we have a guest speaker who might speak on a topic of homelessness, mental health, the writing process, history, etc.  THe only requirement for a topic is that it touch on one of our seven core principals.  

 

In some UU fellowships, they throw around the G and J words quite freely, but not in ours.  

 

Janelle  

 

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From: Michael Shapiro <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12,[masked]:02 PM
Subject: RE: [NOVA-Atheists] UU churches

 

Has anyone explained what is discussed in a non-religious church gathering?  Is there a leader with a sermon or is there a topic of the week or what?  I can understand the longing for joining a group gathering, but what binds the conversation without bowing and chanting and praying to the almighty?

 

From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Anna
Sent: Wednesday, December 12,[masked]:59 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [NOVA-Atheists] UU churches

 

I've found that most call themselves congregations or fellowships, rather than churches.

Sent from Anna's iPhone

On Dec 12, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Lela <[address removed]> wrote:

First of all, I renamed the thread as this has nothing to do with my initial question regarding inauguration balls :)

Second, I have not been to any UU church yet although several people several times suggested that to me. The thing is, I do not like that they are called churches! The word "church" to me is associated with a place where you go to worship a diety. Why can't we substitute this word with any other non-religious word, I don't understand.

Even though I have a loving immediate family (husband and two kids), I too am very lonely sometimes as I have many friends and relatives very far from here, the other side of the world. I often long for a group of people / organization / society to belong to where I would feel cared and supported like someone else pointed in an email today. Nevertheless, I am reluctant to go to UU as long as it is called church. Oh well...

                                                                      

---

From: Gloria Chepko <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12,[masked]:57 PM
Subject: Re: [NOVA-Atheists] Question to all regarding Inauguration Ball

 

I don't either. I have found this discussion really eye-opening. I had no idea there were churches around here hat were basically secular until I talked to David at Festivus. And I agree with Janelle, Or society is really a lonely place for people with no or very little family. Having an active support group is absolutely essential even for peace of mind. Thanks to everyone for this discussion.

On Wednesday, December 12, 2012, Stephanie Ragusky wrote:

I agree, Linda. This was interesting.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

----- Reply message -----
From: "Linda" <[address removed]>
Date: Wed, Dec 12,[masked]:57 am
Subject: [NOVA-Atheists] Question to all regarding Inauguration Ball
To: <[address removed]>

Thanks, Janelle – I don’t think you hijacked the thread.  We freethinkers are all about learning and this discussion about UU has been very educational.  The two UU groups I’m familiar with are too “spiritual” for me and tend to sidestep the issue of nonbelief, but they are filled with good people who actively support many of the same causes that secular groups support.



From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Janelle
Sent: Wednesday, December 12,[masked]:46 AM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [NOVA-Atheists] Question to all regarding Inauguration Ball



My UU "church" is actually a "Fellowship," the Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Fredericksburg.  We were founded by a group of atheists and agnostics and, though the spiritualists have come in, we still have a strong atheist presence.  



I go not to "wean" myself from religion, I never had a religion to wean myself from, but for community.  About 15 years ago, we had the Lisk/Silva murders here in Spotsylvania.  In the midst of that tragedy, I found myself a little envious of the Lisk family.  One of the minor threads of that story was the way the community enfolded this family and protected them.  This went far beyond what I had ever seen any sort of secular community do.  I thought I'd never have that type of a community for myself.  I mentioned this to some people and several recommended I check int the UU's.  I resisted, but then about six years ago, I attended a First Night event at the UU.  I was impressed by the quilt that hung in the fellowship hall (sanctuary) behind the speaker's podium (altar) that had the symbols of many religions, including an atheist symbol (the Darwin fish).  I then read the literature that was there and finally, about three weeks later, I wandered in on a Sunday morning.  



I have found more loving acceptance there than anywhere else.  After the talk (sermon) there is about 15 minutes where we are able to question and even challenge the speaker.  If a "sermon" is too religious, I or another atheist are welcome to stand and respectfully offer a differing opinion.  This is a very different experience from some of the atheist groups I have belonged to where, if I have disagreed with o some of the members, I have been told to not discuss certain topics or not to come (I was defending a woman's choice to be sex-positive and even to choose to participate in sex-work if she was an adult and was participating consensually - the woman with whom I was disagreeing was using some horrible slurs that were really offensive about sex-positive women and sex-workers.  And yes, I have had this conversation with many at the UU, have led discussions on the subject at a UU sponsored group, and my pastor knows all about it and still thinks I am groovy.).  Sadly, some of my experiences with atheists have been more ideologically intolerant than any I have had at my "church" or even with many of the religionists I have known.  Luckily, that has not always been the case and I value my atheist groups as well.  But still, they do not give me the totally accepting, supportive, and ethical community I have found at UU.



So no, my UU membership is not a purgatory.  It is not a substitute religion.  It is a place where, as a middle-aged single woman with no family that I can rely on in a time of crisis, I feel safe and loved and cared for.  And I also recognize that it is not for everyone.  



I apologize if I have hijacked this thread.  Back to defending the separation of church and state!



Respectfully,



Janelle




 _____  


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