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Re: [NYC-rb] Re: [Workshop] The Art of Cucumber

From: Joseph W.
Sent on: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 12:39 PM

Thanks for everyone's responses, I was not expecting to have caused
such a lively discussion!

Sorry for the delay in getting back to everyone. There are a couple of
points I wanted to pick up on mentioned in the various threads:

I should have made this clearer in the workshop description, this is
not a workshop with 8 hours of just looking at the Cucumber tool.
Cucumber is the easy part of the problem, the workshop provides an
introduction to Cucumber so it is as accessible to as many people as
possible. What I'm most interested in is digging around the edges of
Cucumber, looking more broadly to what Gojko Adzic refers to as
Specification by Example. And as mentioned the real challenge with
Cucumber, is scaling it. I've been working with and on the Cucumber
source for nearly 3 years and really this workshop is a chance to
share ideas. Cucumber is easy to pickup but its a tool which provides
you with very little guidance and provides an unfamiliar association
linking methods and plain text through global regular expressions.
From my experience lots of people are using Cucumber but very few
people are using it well and that's what I want to address.

Regarding the cost:
I came to the figure of $400 from doing research on similar Ruby
workshops in New York City, looking at my costs and comparing with
similar workshops I have run. Since I'm from London, England my
expenses for this workshop are a little higher due to travel costs but
I hope the price is still reasonable and comparable with similar
training courses. I've been using­ to get an idea
of if there is enough interest in the course to warrant me booking
holiday time from my main day job and going ahead and flying across
the ocean. I've been using Cucumber and working on the core Cucumber
team for the last 3 years. I have also spoken about it at lots of
conferences all over the world (You can see them all here:­). I hope that
experience is valuable and will be of value to people who attend the
workshop. That is your judgement call.

If you don't think it is worth it then there are a wealth of
presentations and resources on the web about Cucumber for free.

Feel free to drop me an email if you want more resources or have any
question, I'm always happy to help.

And finally if you are interested in the workshop please let me know:

I'll be sending around specific dates and ticket links soon.

I hope that answers some of the questions,

Joseph Wilk
+44 [masked]  |­

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Peter Bell <[address removed]> wrote:
> Hi Vik
> (i) Thanks for the clarification - all makes sense
> (ii) I'm not the OP. *I* am NOT teaching this course. Just don't want there
> to be any confusion. I love cucumber, I use it regularly, but I'm not
> qualified to teach a course on it. Hopefully the OP will jump back in and
> remind people of his name and the URL for the course because unfortunately
> I've lost the original emails.
> Best Wishes,
> Peter
> On Oct 19, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Vik Venkatraman wrote:
> Hey guys -
> I feel the need to clarify my initial response, as I fear it may have come
> across more glib than intended.
> I fully agree that time is valuable, especially the instructor of a course
> like this -- and personally could probably use an overview in Cucumber. It's
> great that Peter even offered to teach a course -- its just this kind of
> thing that makes the RoR community so strong.
> My feedback on price point was under the assumption that the goal was to get
> as many people as possible to attend (and hence further the ties within the
> community) rather than make the most money. I subscribe to the idea that the
> good will, personal brand and network built through these kinds of things
> can easily be worth more than $400 to the instructor.
> But that's just me. Peter - you should of course charge exactly as much as
> you think your class is worth. My suggestion is merely to include more
> factors in the calculation than the ticket price.
> Best,
> vik
> --
> Vik Venkatraman
> Author - Inspired!
> The man makes the clothes. Clothes never make the man.
> E: [address removed]
> M:[masked]
> Twitter: @vikvenkat, @vbespoke
> --
> Contxts - txt SPVIK TO 50500
> --
> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
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> This message was sent by Vik Venkatraman ([address removed]) from NYC.rb.
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> --
> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
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