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Orange County's Android Community Group for Developers+Users Message Board OCAndroid VENUES past+present+possible http://1.JotHere.com/LH2C7F › (OCAndroid venue) Prosum of Orange County (in Irvine) http://1.JotHere.com/M

(OCAndroid venue) Prosum of Orange County (in Irvine) http://1.JotHere.com/M0TB48

A former member
Post #: 484
My talk regarding this with Member & idea-originator Scott Drake, with the immediate parts in bold (as most of this seems to be from Scott learning to switch communicating from private commo to group posting)

  • Posted on Scott's mbr profile (above)
    DestinyArchitect
    THE ORANGE CO. ANDROID DEVELOPER+USER COMMUNITY GROUP
    Mbr Scott http://meetup.com/OCA...­
    *Got my yesterday nite Meetup email http://meetup.com/OCA...­ which features u? Leaders r waiting ur post reply on the Prosum thread so we can schedule its tour.
    *Fr my prior Greet "still awaiting ur reply post to .. http://meetup.com/OCA...­ "-post ur gd searching wk!
    *2ur Collab post I replied http://meetup.com/OCA...­
    Mar 06, 2012 2:06 PM
  • [Not hearing back, call:] Scott Drake (XXX) XXX-9831 - mobile
    3/6/12 8:27 PM 14 hours ago 2 minutes long

    Saved to M0HZ4T recording. 5 rings. Got a loud "Hello. Leave a message." Left OGM that (Wowa, that's a loud OGM, kinda startling. Perhaps you should listen to it. Anyway, this is Michael of OCAndroid calling for Scott. Scott, we haven't heard from you in the last 24hrs so I'm getting concerned. We would have probably gone to Prosum today but I couldn't reach you. All the other leaders have responded and are waiting for your response. Hopefully we'll go tomorrow. Hope all is ok with u. Contact me some way and let me know.)
  • Scott Drake (XXX) XXX-9831 - mobile
    3/7/12 11:03 AM now
    Scott Drake: You got the number right It was clear I left it up to you Right Then why wait for me I realy want this to work out well for the group But I will not lead . 9:53 AM
    Scott Drake: Oh and call or text me or email directly please I'm done with comunicating through meetup Thank you for your help with it and for all you do for the group 10:03 AM
    Me: Where hv u been? U ok,right? U ask: "why wait for me" -everyone involved including John naturally expected u to come tour the facility,esp given u found it. 10:08 AM
    Me: But we can work around u dont want 2tour w/us,but just let us know:just post when&why where everyone else does&has: http://meetup.com/OCA...­ -sd take only 1min. Or whats the obstacle? -U do hv ur browser set2 auto-save ur Meetup pw as u do hv a pw-protected screen saver,yes? 10:14 AM
    Me: -I'm asking all these Qs sincerely -to understand &fix whatever trouble there is so things run smooth -my job to the group. 10:19 AM
    Scott Drake: Yea I feel good thanks I would be glad to go or not is fine too I'm open any time Please just text or call or email direct I just can't get into looking for 10:26 AM
    Scott Drake: messeges on meetup I just don't trust meetup to comunicate efectively Thanks for the tips agian ill look into them 10:26 AM
    Me: Yes,&I hope to also cover this more w/u when we meet,to understand&fix things to make all smooth. Ok,4this,I talk w/u private msg, but "just text or call or email direct" is not "just" -yes,it SEEMS much simpler 2u &many who r new but ends poor as per Meetup's&org's GOOD design parts,we've *MULTIPLE* leaders on all tasks (NOT 1 center person) AND mbrs participate&attend fr seeing OTHER mbrs post,NOT Head Mbr post.Is this sinking in 4u? 10:55 AM
    Me: So,if via private commo,now I&leaders r *burdened* 2repeat 4u&everyone what was said&2 fast rekey&repost our &everyone's talk(lot of work!)&risk reposting something u no not want posted,+still no mbr pics&not believed, so MUCH btr if posts from u (&in reply to others' *original* words,not fr some tel game). Make sense? 11:03 AM
    Scott Drake: Yea I get it So let me know or not is fine too See ya tonight 11:36 AM

A former member
Post #: 485
NHB I called John & left a vmail
John Lamarche (949) 732-1115 - mobile
3/7/12 2:36 PM 11 minutes ago 2 minutes long

Called & got his vmail; saved to M0JDLB.
and he called back:

  • John Lamarche (949) 732-1115 - mobile
    3/7/12 2:39 PM 8 minutes ago 8 minutes long
  • He had not seen my email, being overloaded with emails he says. He was able to find & 1st look at briefly my email during the call.
  • I forgot to ask if he got my SMS but it looks possible he may not have (may not get SMS at this #).
  • He says that he still wasn't expecting to meet as early as this week so he can't do that meeting; he says they will need at least a week's notice (I gave him the heads up during his 1st call, but it's understandable he didn't get that)
  • So I told him plan on us for next Wed 7pm-9:30pm. He said OK. He said he will need an email to his other staff, but he will put that together from his notes when we meet him today.
  • To do our tour, he said to come by at 4pm (it sounded like 5pm might be too late for him). I told him Bill, Scott, Lucy, and I will be coming, and maybe others.
  • He said he is already on Meetup and looks forward to joining this group and reading this thread about his company and posting his job listings.


As we planned, en route, else afterwards, each of us should also tour Round Table of Lake Forest --Lucy & I already have but we'd be willing to tour again with you.

I'm notifying all planned & possible attendees.

  • Lucy & I plan to be there at 4pm.
  • I SMSed Bill
    Me: John of Prosum calls back&wants us there@4pm. http://meetup.com/OCA...­ When u be there? Post there. 3:01 PM
    William "Bill" R. Zwicky: Should be able to make it. 3:08 PM
  • I SMS Scott
    Me: John of Prosum jst called&wants us there@4pm: see http://meetup.com/OCA...­ When u be there? Also u ideally sd also tour Round Table which is on the way 4u. Want to carpool? See pls latest updates there & post there. 3:11 PM
  • Posted
    OCAndroid leader Kathy http://meetup.com/OCA...­ As emailed to the group a few days ago, other OCAndroid leaders & members are visiting 2 developer venue prospects today before our 7pm meeting and wd like you to join us. Please see & post ur reply at http://meetup.com/OCA...­ . Hope to see u. Thx.
  • Posted
    OCAndroid leader Donna http://meetup.com/OCA...­
    As emailed to the group a few days ago, other OCAndroid leaders & members are visiting 2 developer venue prospects today before our 7pm meeting and wd like you to join us. Please see & post ur reply at http://meetup.com/OCA...­ . Hope to see u. Thx.

Bill Z.
user 22447461
Orange, CA
Post #: 16
Large conference room, table can hold around 10 people , but we can drag in more tables as needed.

Internet runs about 7mb down, 7mb up, and 30ms ping.

Test Date: Mar 7, 2012 4:55:18 pm
Connection Type: Wifi
Server: Los Angeles, CA
Download: 6936 kbps
Upload: 6950 kbps
Ping: 30 ms

External IP: 216.2.68.226
Internal IP: 172.20.0.127
Latitude: 33.67758
Longitude: -117.85551

A detailed image for this result can be found here:

http://www.speedtest....­

Ookla operates Speedtest.net using a massive global infrastructure to minimize the impact of Internet congestion and latency. With millions of tests performed every day across hundreds of servers, Speedtest.net is the ultimate resource for bandwidth testing and related information. Visit it on your computer today to find out why.
A former member
Post #: 486
Yes, Bill, Lucy, & I are here.

Beautiful facility!

The big conference table comfortably seats 10 with laptops. With additional chairs & a table nearby, we could fit up to 20 he says, but not with all laptops.

Wifi: log in with wifi SSID:ProsumGuest, (get an invalid certificate for 1.1.1.1, but just click Proceed). Will get a Prosum login screen; enter username guest, password (confidential).

Real fast Internet:

Date
IP Address
Download
Upload
Latency
Server
Distance
Share
2012-03-08 1:08 AM GMT 216.2.68.226 4.15 Mb/s 5.60 Mb/s 59 ms San Diego, CA ~ 100 mi


We reserved for next Wed 7pm (since John couldn't be here Monday) with the preference that we switch to Monday when he can do it. He will confirm the reservation in about 24hrs, expects it will be likely.

On Wed he plans to do a 5min presentation on what he does.

It also includes a ~50inch LCD video screen with 1 VGA and 2HDMI inputs, AND it also includes an integrated touch screen and computer & video camera for remote conference sessions -No F'ing way!

John & us see a lot of synergy -- sounds excellent.

A former member
Post #: 487

  • From: John Lamarche <Jo..he @prosum.com>
    Date: Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 7:09 PM
    Subject: RE: OCAndroid making use of the meeting facility at Prosum of OC
    To: "DestinyArchitect http://Meetup.com/mem...­ <LC..st @loverules.info>

    Michael,

    Great meeting you guys last night. Thanks for dropping by. Good news / bad news…good news is the group can use this location. Bad news is it will not be available until the week of March 19th. Sorry if that puts you guys in a jam…our IT consultants have the room booked up until the 19th.

    Talk soon,

    John

    John LaMarche
    Direct- 949.732.1115
  • From: DestinyArchitect http://Meetup.com/mem...­ <LC..st @loverules.info>
    Date: Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 10:00 AM
    Subject: Re: OCAndroid making use of the meeting facility at Prosum of OC
    To: John Lamarche <Jo..he @prosum.com>

    Just saw your email. Well still overall excellent news, John!

    Ok, we'll meet at your venue Mondays 7:00pm to ~10:00pm starting the 2012.03.19Mon; please reserve in advance automatically unless changes, which I'd also let you know in advance. Cool!

    So then for next week, so not to loose group momentum, I think we'll have a meeting at our backup location (which unfortunately is without wifi & not as central), Round Table Lake Forest, reserved on 2012.03.14Wed (and there we'll test that venue, plus test & focus on having a meeting without native wifi, to build us up for whenever we may need that).

    Have you submitted on http://Meetup.com/OCA...­ join? We'll be processing them Saturday and looking forward to it! Esp. in preparation for your 1st presentation to us on the 19th. :-)

    Sincerely, -Michael
  • From: DestinyArchitect http://Meetup.com/mem...­ <LC..st @loverules.info>
    Date: Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 10:27 AM
    Subject: Re: OCAndroid making use of the meeting facility at Prosum of OC
    To: John Lamarche <Jo..he @prosum.com>

    Also I want to announce your venue before else when I announce our next meeting at the backup location (which is right away being next week) so our members will see where we're going & won't thing no-wifi et all will be permanent. And with that announcement of your venue this weekend, naturally I want to include your member profile & photo on http://Meetup.com/OCA...­ ,bringing you good intro & attention (also your membership will allow you to proof everything before I send it) so ready for your joining today. Will be win-win!

A former member
Post #: 492
RE my previous post, here's the 1st part of latest news, in order it happened, with key stuff in BOLD.

  • Did not hear back from John so called & SMSed him him, then called Prosum, quote:

    • John Lamarche (949) 732-1115 - mobile
      3/16/12 1:30 PM 3 hours ago 1 minute long
      Saved to M0ZVJT. Immediately got vmail. Said q(Hi, John. This is Michael of OCAndroid. I haven't heard from you since you sent me email saying the room will be available on the 19th. Looking forward to our using it. We've listed the event, But concerned I haven't heard from you. Want to make sure you're alive & kicking. So looking forward to seeing you on Monday and also talking as soon as possible.)
    • Me to John Lamarche (949) 732-1115 - mobile
      3/16/12 1:32 PM 3 hours ago
      Me: Just sent u voicemail. Do you get SMS msgs? Just reply. -thx, Destiny of OCAndroid 1:32 PM
    • Prosum of Orange County (949) 732-1122 - work
      3/16/12 3:04 PM 104 minutes ago 2 minutes long
      Saved to M0ZZTS . Receptionist answers. She says she thinks John Lamarche is in. I say I haven't heard from him in 8 days. She transfers me. I get his vmail & leave another msg saying "Just calling from the main line since I hadn't heard from you."
    • Prosum of Orange County (949) 732-1122 - work
      3/16/12 3:06 PM 102 minutes ago 6 minutes long

      Saved to M0ZZTS . Dial again. Same receptionist (Shansu(sp?)) answers. I explain I got his vmail so rather than transfer me perhaps you could get anyone who could insure facility is okay for Monday. She puts me on hold for ~3mins. Says that they're in a meeting but she did ping him and he says he'll call you back right away. I give my phone # again, 94X.XXX.XX56. I explain we have a group coming Monday 7pm and haven't heard from John in 8 days and want to make sure all is squared away else it will fall on me.

A former member
Post #: 493
RE my previous post, here's is part 2 of 2 of latest news, in order it happened, with key stuff in BOLD.

  • John calls back, quote(John Lamarche (949) 732-1115 - mobile
    3/16/12 4:05 PM 43 minutes ago 39 minutes long) UNDER CONSTRUCTION

    • He says yes his conference room is confirmed for us Monday 7pm-, and he will be there.
    • He explains the terms of the referral fee ($500 & $1000) he offers

      • This offer is good for anyone who refers to him, but if referring thru or in any way significantly because of OCAndroid then OCAndroid is to get the referral fee.
      • If one refers a candidate or client to him who, as a consequence, his company "profits from" as detailed here, he will have his company pay the referrer $500 and $100 respectively.
      • His company "profits from" a situation when a client of theirs hires & pays a candidate of theirs for at least 90 days.
      • He said this is a standard Prosum policy but
      • He says Prosum doesn't have this policy writing and he did not want to give it to us in writing though he would give no good explanation why

        • He just said one should just rely on his integrity. I let him know I did not understand why they would not put it in writing; it just seemed good business practice, and what I learned especially in the military where everything is to be in writing, and not simply because someone may not trust someone but also to make sure everyone understands the terms. He didn't agree to put it in writing. I said then I would write it up for my members to the best of my understanding since I share everything with them and they trust me; it didn't feel he wanted that nor wanted to reply to it as "Yes, those are the terms" but he didn't argue when I said "I put everything in writing to my members."
        • Though I didn't say so, I began wondering if this great referral fee offer he he featured from our first phone call was real. So I asked, "How many of these referral fees have you paid out, as once a month or what?" He was vague, saying say "sometimes 2x per year and sometimes 2x per year"
        • He said "Why do you need a referral fee? We are already giving you the room for free." I replied "Because you offered it and we need the money, so then I would have my members work hard to get it if it is real since they are local to your group and will work if it could benefit us. Plus we already allow you to present at the start of each of our meetings."
        • Something started feeling fishy.


    • I went over our rule that we didn't want posting of phone #s & emails for direct contact on the site, but that to communicate initially to recruits via post. He seemed okay with that.
    • He said he had just applied to join the group . I was pleased. Actually I see he applied during our call. Here is his info

      Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 4:21 PM
      John LaMarche
      Hi - glad to be a part of this group. I help companies find gifted technical resources and find gifted technical resources find great career opportunities. Need a gig? Need a full time or contract employee - I may be able to help.
      What programming or graphic design background do you have?
      I recruit for all types of programming and graphic design positions.

      What type of apps would you like to build as a team?
      Cool ones :) -

      What computer languages are you experienced with?
      I recruit for all types of dev languages....Java, .NET, PHP, Perl, Objective C, Android...the list goes on.

      Please describe your I.T. background and your general background.
      Former sys admin, who moved over to a technical recruiter role.....I gig technology.

      Does your group-profile's main/featured picture meet standard http://1.JotHere.com/...­ ? --required for all members at all times so required to join and/or attend. Or if you've good reason for a waiver (none granted so far), explain here.
      Yes, I think it does

      • The one thing unusual I noticed was this: I said ~"Your groups & interests are private. Perhaps you are new to Meetup but that is usually not the best for getting to know people & networking Did you know that you can have multiple profiles?" He basically said firmly "I want it that way (private)." so I dropped it.I did notice is that is groups & Replace this text with the first

    • I asked to confirm that he had the room reserved weekly as planned. He said he didn't understand we were to do this weekly. I told him this came as a big surprise to me, as I recall I covered in our 1st call (indeed I now remember I covered it explicitly during our 2nd call: during our 2nd call he said he starting the 19th we could have it every week), plus when Bill & Lucy & I visited I recall we talked about it, plus it shows weekly on our website, plus I just emailed about it 8 days ago, plus "monthly" was never mentioned. But he continued to act as if this was somehow a legitimate misunderstanding that we wanted monthly. He said he only wanted to do something monthly, adding it was difficult to reserve: a waiver had to be signed for the building and approvals had to be gotten each time, he said. At the time it occurred to me he was pretending to heard weekly as monthly knowing that would not be enough for us so cause us to not take his venue without it being his fault, because he was quite upset over us wanting the the referral agreement in writing, and given new recollections (showing he knew weekly) plus new facts below, this now seems likely. Nonetheless, I said "Well, since you let us know this now and we're already set up & advertised for Monday, let's keep this Monday and see how it goes. Please talk with powers to be to see if it would be okay for weekly." which he seemingly reluctantly agreed to.


A former member
Post #: 494
(UNDER CONSTRUCTION) Right after that prior call, I did the needed followup
Just then (I didn't know this yet but) Meetup emailed me Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 5:04 PM that John suddenly quit our group and "We asked why he or she was leaving the group, John LaMarche didn't fill out an answer."

Then 1 minute later John called me again unexpectedly,
John Lamarche (949) 732-1115 - mobile
3/16/12 5:05 PM 2 days ago 4 minutes long

  • Unaware he had quit our group, I told him I was right now working on on posting what we just talked about and I'm delighted Prosum will be having us.
  • He responded angrily ~"The deal is off. Your posting to the public my emails plus the fact you were on hold for 3 minutes. You're making Prosum look like clowns. My whole office is upset. So the deal is off."
  • I replied ~"What? No no one thinks of Prosum as clowns. And I'm not at at all upset on being on hold for 3 minutes. And these posts are primarily just for our leaders to read, the thread is not public, only members can read it. Moreover, as they say, they are `UNDER CONSTRUCTION' and we can still edit them; they were not emailed out."
  • He replied ~"It doesn't matter even if only your admins can read them. Even still, you wanted our referral policy in writing and our last call was 40 minutes. I'm just doing you this favor to you to call & tell you. So the deal is off. "
  • I replied ~"Our last call was long just as 1 time event to finalize things. And I explained I give our members everything in writing, why I asked."
  • He replied, ~"It doesn't matter, the deal is off. Now do I need to hang up on you?"
  • I replied ~"Please tell your office that the posts were private, not public, and no one is making out nor thinking of your company is clowns."
  • He replied, ~"They don't care. Relationship over. Bye." and he hung up on me. "
    [


This was an upsetting call for me. After this call, at first I took his words literally. "Was I wrong to post up exactly what happened?" But then it occurred to me that that didn't fit because he responded "It didn't matter" to all my replies to him that the situation wasn't nearly bad as what he and allegedly his office made it out to be (including everything could be edited), indeed there was real trouble at all. So, reading between the lines, it appears possibly what John was really upset about is that he/Prosum actually was up to some monkey business (as perhaps promising big referral payments but not giving them) and he could see that since we were putting everything down in writing, we were likely to catch him/Prosum on this. The feeling reminded me of when I was a landlord renting out rooms and had a very detailed application & credit check, where people who seemed they had something to hide would be scared off simply by the application itself, and those who actually completed the app were fine.

To add more real drama (truth stranger than fiction), right after this call, I noticed I just got an email from one of our members saying he he had just noticed John L becoming a member and warning us, in strong language, against John L. & Prosum. This might be true but it also had suspicious qualities (including the timing, as John L's profile was only on our site for ~14 minutes and no one but me was emailed about it), so I am investigating on the legitimacy of this warning. But I'm not rushing that, because Prosum had already disqualified themselves.
A former member
Post #: 495
So on 2012.03.16(Fri)17,
I saw bottom line Prosum, at least via John L., won't work for us, for several reasons, from most to least:

  • John L. of Prosum has revoked the offer (prior post), and for reasons which don't entirely seem to compute.
  • John L. says Prosum can only provide the room to us monthly, and via odd way of telling us this (detailed above)
  • On 2 occasions, John L. seems to forget the agreement/understanding (that we needed weekly, not monthly, and that we needed that 1st week we contacted him)
  • A number of additional suspicious things involving John L./Prosum:

    • John features their standard high-paying referral fee but won't provide it in writing. (Bill said that when he heard of a recruiter paying a referral fee, it was all spelled out in writing)
    • John hides his Meetup groups & interests.

  • Reliability warning: 8 days past with no reply from John L. was needed and we were running out of time.
  • One member warns us strongly against John L./Prosum (prior post), to be investigated.

So I quickly reserved at Round-Table Lake Forest with no problem.

I summed up Prosum in my SMS to Bill.
Me to William "Bill".. Zwicky (XXX) XXX-2592 - mobile
3/16/12 2 days ago
:
Me: OCAndroid venue news: w/much drama,Prosum's out(short seems 2be:"if it's too good to be true,then it prob isn't" indeed seems it might be a gd thing!). So I,since I came up w/a wifi solution,I reserved RoundTable LF in it's place&via single ph call!-at least until we find a better(esp more central) place. Ur thoughts? 6:28 PM
William "Bill".. Zwicky: I 6:28 PM
Me: Bill, what's ur reply? All I got is "I 6:28 PM". 6:46 PM
William "Bill" R. Zwicky: Just showered. Not familiar with Tustin mkt, but Tustin city is close. Need to read up on prosum, I guess. 6:48 PM
Me: 4Prosum, agreed but most efficient 2wait I tell u the details,as I put up the full story on the pvt venue thread. 6:51 PM [the above]

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