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An Investigation of the Self, the Body and Death.

  • 3 days ago · 7:00 PM
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The approach here is to investigate initially by direct experience and intuition then explore some concepts and frameworks we could apply.


Suggest following this flow, always open to being changed by the group:


Q1a: What do you intuit by Self.  Suggest some examples. 

Q1b: Are there concept of self that are meaningful. How much should we trust these concepts ?


Q2a: How do you intuit how the Self and Body inter relate ?. Suggest some examples

Q2b:How should the Self and the Body inter relate and why ?


Q3a: What does your intuition say about how Death relates to the Body and the Self. Suggest some examples. 

Q3b: How do you conceptualize this ?


Here is a very interesting and possibly provocative short discussion of this topic between the Buddhist psychologist Jack Kornfield and Brother David that has both intuitive elements and a particular conceptual overlay:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFVL-1lOZcg



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  • Elena

    My greatest apologies - simply was afraid to drive:((

    3 days ago

  • Jo

    Charles Taylor establishes the modern self as a collection of strong evaluations, that is, what we consider to be goods for us (as individuals, as members of a greater society, and as members of smaller units with people who are important to us).
    So, basically, we are selves to the extent that we make decisions about what is important for us (our morals, values, priorities, goals) and that those elements situate us in the world and give it a sense to us.

    For those who have lots of time on their hands, the first part of "Sources of The Self" (the first 100 pages) describes his understanding of the self as inextricable from its moral standpoints.

    I believe intuition is a very important aspect of our self for Taylor, since a great deal of our notion of the good cannot be explained from a rational or factual standpoint. Intuition and emotion both play a big part in the making of our self, if we are moral beings.

    2 · November 7

    • Dr S. Ranga S.

      Some things remain strangely mysterious and it is well that they remain so.

      3 days ago

    • Erik

      Oh, I disagree that it is good that somethings remain eternally mysterious, but I do think it is good that there is always some mysterious thing to explore... usually springing up after demystifying something...

      3 days ago

  • Rafi

    Ufortuntly can't make it. But if u search youtube for *Sylvia jonas* there's a video on inneffability wich covers some intesting and relevant material. Have good mtg!

    5 days ago

  • James H.

    If I personally would answer the question what is self I would be tempted to say it is the shape of my "being". It avoids the language of soul which has too much baggage, as well as avoiding the language of self as "software" or "app" of a biological machine. Agree the language is vague but I think some vagueness is appropriate here than false precision. By being I mean in the existential sense, I am self aware, have some intentionality, have presence and can sense presence. Being is grounded in biology but is not reducible to physics and chemistry. The tentative evidence of being is simply the experience of it as described. This would be a starting point for my as I think there are many layers to what we intuit as self.

    November 8

    • Rafi

      "... it is the imaginative understanding of something." How would that compare/relate to simple perception of something?

      November 9

    • James H.

      I think to perceive something involves some aspect of intuition since it involves interpreting/labelling something which is to find the right concept that matches what is sensed.

      November 10

  • James H.

    I would argue as well intuition is broader than intellectual knowledge and can contain intellectual knowledge as well. The breadth and depth in intuition flows from engaged experiential experience where we pay attention to where concept work and don't work and gain insight to where new conceptual work can be useful.

    November 8

    • Dr S. Ranga S.

      I am a theoretical physicist and do not like convoluted thinking or expressing our thoughts. I am a student of philosophy next.

      November 9

    • Dr S. Ranga S.

      Both Eastern ( Indian ) as well as Western.

      November 9

  • Erik

    Intuitively I suspect my intuition is trying to convince me to buy and then eat that huge Costco special Toblerone bar... as it is an absolute requirement for me my body tells it ... I thus intuit that the bacteria in my gut have way too much influence...

    November 7

    • Erik

      Well, that's why call our intuition a gut feeling isn't it?

      1 · November 7

    • Erik

      Kind of shows the power of intuition... modern science has shown how even our moods are affected significantly by the current culture of the bacteria in our gut.. thus pointing out how much we are not really a single entity but a symbiosis and who knows how much each entity contributes to our "sense of self" let alone our consciousness ... but if bacteria distributions can impart meaningful impacts on our emotions (re moods), then that they impart meaningful input into our sense of self is not a big leap but is a small sideways stumble at best... thus that old adagy intitutive thingy about "what is your gut feeling" seems to be bang on ...

      2 · November 7

  • James H.

    Intuition can provide information and insight which we can reflect and evaluate. Sometime we can believe too much in uninformed model, like say our fuzzy understanding of how the brain works, and this could suppress useful insight that flow from our intuition. This topic is at the frontier where I think our traditional concepts are very limited and intuition is very important. Anyways this tension is part of the discussion.

    November 7

  • Lee J.

    Is intuition of any value with this topic? Will the result be an understanding of Self, Soul etc. or , what may be more interesting, how the brain is structured so we can make sense of our (traditional) environment?

    November 7

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