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A former member
Post #: 2
Hi Everyone,

Most of you have probably been more involved than I have and have probably done more for the cause, so I don?t want to sound like I know it all better than ya?all. I just have some points that I thought I?d mention rather than not, that I think are important.

In my opinion, it?s very difficult to get someone to see our point of view, especially if we are confrontational, because it becomes a matter of pride, then. We?re not trying to get people to just see that 2 + 2 = 4. It?s a lot deeper. We?re actually asking them to change their point of view, and their belief in everything they thought they knew about their country, which they might have held for their whole life., There?s a hump for people to get over - a lot can?t even imagine that it?s even possible that the ones they thought they could trust (ie our govt) could do something like this.

Just like, for example, if someone you don?t know came to you and told you your father or brother or mother or best friend had killed someone. What would you say? Yeah, right. That?s not possible, etc., etc. No matter how hard the person argued, you wouldn?t be convinced until the facts were staring you in the face, and maybe not even then.

I believe the best approach is to put things in the form of ?Did you know?.?

Where we could say, for example

Did you know that the WTC had 264 steel columns in its center and perimeter. Did you know that jet fuel can burn only as hot as 1700 degrees F, and Did you know that steel doesn?t even start to soften until 2300 degrees and it doesn?t fail until at least 3000 degrees. Therefore, as many scholars have now pointed out, the laws of physics would have to have been broken 264 times in each of WTC 1 & 2.

Did you know, the debris from flight 93 was spread over 10 miles, which is impossible from a plane that crashed? Did you know the first reporters on the scene said they saw absolutely no plane?

Did you know the hole in the Pentagon was only 15 feet wide, but yet there was no sign of a plane or passengers anywhere on the grounds nor was there a white hot fireball that would have been necessary to totally burn up and evaporate the plane and passengers?

Did you know?.that Bldg 7 wasn?t hit by anything, and had only 2 or 3 small fires in it, when it suddenly collapsed in perfect symmetry and that there has been no official explanation of how that could have happened even until today? Did you know that the 911 commission totally ignored that fact?

Did you know it is a felony to remove evidence from a crime scene, yet every single piece of metal debris was gathered up and put on a boat to China within days after the event, on the order of RGuiliani?

Did you know that Prof. Steven Jones was given a few small pieces of WTC debris and through chemical analysis found the unmistakable chemical formulation of thermate, an explosive, and that there is no way for it to have been there due to natural causes or from the plane crash?

These are just the tips of the iceberg. There?s so much shocking info, that we don?t need to shock people ourselves, the info will do it, if we have it organized and referenced and in plain view.

I don?t know exactly where we could use them, but I think it would be good to put together illustrated and referenced fact sheets with this type of information.

Another good point is that even IF the WTC collapse was due to fire, that fire would have to have been red hot and engulfing the complete building for some time. The fact is, there wasn?t even any fire burning in some parts of the building. Half of the buildings were still in good shape with no fire evident, yet all the off the steel columns even in THOSE parts of the buildings all inexplicably failed at the same time, even without any fire around them.

There are a lot of facts about 911 that I believe if they were simply brought to the attention of people would leave no other choice but to conclude the official story is a hoax.

I think we have to put facts in front of people and let them make their own conclusions. They have to first get over the reluctance to think it?s simply not possible no matter what. If we can put facts like these in front of people to think about, ultimately, they?ll have to either see the light or retreat deeper into ignorance.

Like I said, I don?t know where we?ll use them, but maybe we can work together to make some graphic literature that we can hopefully use somewhere.

Of course, any kind of formal public debate would be great, but I don?t know where or with whom we might be able to set that up. Maybe at a university? Maybe we can debate (I would love to) any professor or other (so-called) scholar who still believes the fairy tale. Or maybe we can put on a class called ?What ARE the 911 conspiracy theories / alternate theories?? Or ?Why the alternate 911 stories won?t go away? or something along those lines. Or maybe we can set up a debate on public access cable.

But I think we have to let people see the facts on their own and not condemn them personally if they are still being fooled. They won?t believe us just because we are good arguers for our point, but rather, they have to make that change on their own, after being confronted with information they may not have been aware of, or maybe were previously afraid to look at

One other thing, I have an avi file of a conference with David Griffin, Kevin Ryan of UL and a few others, from Sept 2006, A few files of Steven Jones from 2006, and David Griffin?s classic from Book TV. And a bunch others, if anybody needs them.

A former member
Post #: 16
This is some really great input, thanks dave! I agree that we need to change our approach. I would love to discuss this further at the next meetup. We should have a concrete fact sheet that is backed up with legitimate facts for people to pass out, and we should also make one to debunk the debunking arguments. I will work on that right when I get back.
Peter H.
user 3471076
San Diego, CA
Post #: 3
With regard to the idea of a public debate, or at least presentation, last I heard the other 9/11 truth group in SD was going to be organizing a "Citizen's Grand Jury" which would involve exactly that. I think it's being targeted for march, and they are inviting some real top names. And by other group I'm referring to Ted, Nelisse and Co. At the last meeting they held they specifically asked me to drum up support for the event, but I'm not sure exactly what stage it's at and what form it will take so I'm holding back for the time being.

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