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Re: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows

From: Gia C.
Sent on: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 12:29 PM
thanks for your input, Barb

Gia

--- On Sun, 6/3/12, barb <[address removed]> wrote:

From: barb <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows
To: [address removed]
Date: Sunday, June 3, 2012, 9:13 AM

yes, human beings are flawed, and we all make mistakes. however, mv make a conscious decision to inflict pain on dumb animals. imo, he should never be allowed to own a pet or indirectly engage in any activity even remotely involving animals. he should also be required to donate all of his salary except for $30000 per year to the aspca.



-----Original Message-----
From: [address removed]
To: animalrights-190
Sent: Sat, Jun 2,[masked]:02 pm
Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows


I probably do not know enough about this entire thing to comment, but I will anyway.   This man, a convicted felon, who did time, should be glad he is free.  But to honor him,  I'm sorry, there is something wrong with a person who does these things that does not go away.  He is not to be blamed for being wired up as he is, but like a mad dog, he should be kept away from anyone that may be harmed.
 
Marian
On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Jeffrey Hoyt <[address removed]> wrote:
I've been reading this thread the last couple of days, and would like to put my two cents (well, probably more like 5 cents :) in. 
 
I have no love for Michael Vick, and would have probably smiled if those poor dogs he abused had the opportunity to have their way with him.  Yet in some ways I have to go with Mark on this one.  In the end it all comes down to whether he now truly believes what he did was wrong.  If he's just playing along, then of course he deserves the worst. 
 
But consider this.  Many good people often do bad things without any remorse, partially because they don't consider that what they are doing is even horribly wrong (because of mental considitions such as psychopathy, because of family/cultural upbringing, etc).  To this day, there are millions of people born into cultures where it is totally acceptable to mutilate young women and cut off their genitalia, where men are considered more macho by watching chickens fight to the death, where other macho men torture and kill a drugged and confused bulls... and I could go on and on.  And consider otherwise good people today who eat meat and dairy, and who in doing so contribute horribly to mass slaughter, deprivation, pain, suffering and toruture of tends of millions of factory-farmed prison animals.  Yes, if you eat meat or dairy, you are directly contributing to more animals' torture than Michael Vick ever could dream of.  What kind of punishment do you deserve?  (rhetorical question, of course). 
 
In addition to the prison study cited below (VERY interesting read if you haven't heard of it before), also consider the famous Milgram authority/eletric shock studies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment .  In its broadest sense, these tests consistently showed time and time again that people just like you and I were more often than not willing to (in their mind anyway) kill someone when someone else told them to do so.  This showed that "good" people are of course very capable of "bad" things. 
 
I guess my main point in this email is to show that to me the issue is rather grey, not black and white.  Should all psychopaths be killed?  They are born that way.  It's a slippery slope to limit the rights of those born with a disorder (or even just a basic mental state society at large doesn't condone).  Again, had Michael Vick been eaten alive by hungry dogs after what he did, I wouldn't have shed a tear.  But just consider the other side of the coin too.
 
Jeff 
 
 
 
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground." - Thomas Jefferson, 1788

From: Angela Christopher <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Saturday, June 2,[masked]:34 PM

Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows


good people don't do bad things. if they did, they wouldn't be good people.
rehabilitation is not possible for psychopaths.

From: Mark R. Orel <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Sat, June 2,[masked]:11:09 PM
Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows
What Michael Vick did, can be considered a mistake,
if he now believes he was wrong at the time.  This is
something that only he can know. 

For me humans are flawed creatures we are both demon
and angle.  We have the capacity for great compassion and
fantastic cruelty.  As one of these flawed creatures I prefer
to believe in second chances.  I prefer to believe in rehabilitation,
as apposed to prison warehousing. 

Please understand that good people can do great harm under
the right circumstance.  And the right circumstance can be as
simple as who's with you at what moment.  Remember the Stanford
Prison Experiment? 
    - http://www.experiment-resources.com/stanford-prison-experiment.html

Everyone screws up at one time or another.  What makes one
person better than the other is how well we fix it.  

Why do good people do bad things?
Why do bad things happen to good people?



M. Orel



On[masked]:16, Michelle R wrote:
Dear All,
 
Really? What Michael Vick did was a mistake? Really.
 
A mistake is an absence of thought, not a deliberate thought-out action, an enterprise.
 
He did it because he lacks a conscience. He lacks empathy. He lacks compassion.
 
Michael Vick played the game. He played the game to get a lesser sentence, he played the game to get back in the game, Football. To make money.
 
He didn't "Dog-fight" to make money.
 
Wanna get religious? Do demons have empathy? Do demons have compassion? What constitutes a soul? Are demons sadistic? Can humans lack a soul? What qualities emcompass a soul? Can a human be born without a soul?
 
Like all evil people, he played the game of good (and was instructed & advised as to do it) to get what he wanted.
 
Now, the Real Question is: Do we as a society merge ethics with professional performance?
 
How is that gauged in terms of severity?
 
I think Michael Vick lacks a soul. Duh. He lacks empathy and compassion. WOW. It probably applies to almost everyone you meet. Well, don't be surprised.
 
We are in a spiritual battle here on this planet. Especially now. The planet is dying.
 
A Hero? WTF?!!! Pete Rose was banned from the Baseball Hall of Fame for gambling!!!! Even though his professional performance was separate from the gambling. BS. And we're gonna honor a morally bankrupt, sadistic "person" that no one wouldn't even around their dog/pet?
 
Really? Think. What is a mistake? And, what is sadistic? Sadism, deriving pleasure from others pain, is in the DSM model of psychological disorders. So is being Sociopathic, lack of care for others.
 
He is Sick. Sick in the head, heart and soul. Is he human, demon; does he have a soul?
 
Think about it. We all make mistakes. Do you plan your mistakes? Do you derive pleasure from you mistakes?
 
Really...............
 
Michelle R.
 
 
 
 
From: Angela Christopher <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Thursday, May 31,[masked]:00 PM
Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows
dear valerie,

i respect your idealism, however, vick didn't make a mistake.
a mistake is dropping a bag of soil at home depot. a mistake is a typo. a mistake is trusting someone who doesn't deserve it.
a mistake is putting the wrong amount of postage on an envelope.

brute cruelty without empathy is psychosis. this is incurable. it is not a mistake. it was a deliberate choice, made by a person who enjoyed physically torturing defenseless beings, and who also did it for profit; a wealthy person who engaged in cruelty
for profit in addition to pleasure. he isn't the peasant who had to kill a chicken to feed his starving family.

to address a couple of your questions:  "Has he made an impact on at least 1 person to walk away from the dog fighting?  Yes"
nope. but i am sure he is responsible for many, many people engaging in it because they thought it was cool, because he did it.

"Has he quit the practice of dog fighting himself therefore sparing many, many dogs lives? Yes"
this is so absurd i can hardly address it. that is like saying that since i am not a serial killer, i have spared a lot of lives.

please don't allow your naiveté to qualify vick's irredeemable behavior.

angie ferritto



From: Ellie <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Wed, May 30,[masked]:02:20 PM
Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows
I hope you are right, Sandie.  I have to think that the work we are doing now will someday result in the liberation of animals.  I can understand how Gia feels, however.  What he did is beyond the pale.  Had he been imprisoned for killing a human I am certain he would not be receiving awards or appearing in reality tv shows.  Until people understand that ALL life is precious the animals will never be safe.
 
Ellie


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Sandie A. Sajner <[address removed]>
To: animalrights-190 <[address removed]>
Sent: Wed, May 30,[masked]:27 pm
Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows

There is "redemption" in every one of us. I suspect highly that one day Murder King, I mean Burger King, and the rest, will only sell optimally healthy vegan foods!!!  No animals will ever have to suffer again, not for sports, not for eating, not for display. Valerie has a great point. Thank you both for sharing such insights. Protecting all of life is of great importance. Sandie

From: Valerie <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Wed, May 30, 2012 2:34:25 PM
Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows
Hi Gia, While I appreciate your passion and understand completely the horror of what Michael Vick did ( I am vegan), let's think for a moment.  First of all, it is a Sportsman Award, only related to his sports career and not for his moral fiber. Secondly, we have all made mistakes, albeit his was "huge", but he is now doing "ministry" work through the help of HSUS to promote animal welfare and dissuade the youth against dog fighting.  That has enormous impact!!  We cannot see his heart to truly know if he is repentant or just trying to change his image through his publicist but whatever the case, he can make a difference in changing the mindset of those who may be susceptible to the dog-fighting culture.  Isn't that what we want? The more he is in the spotlight, the more he is under the microscope. This will pressure him to maintain his humane behavior or he will surely be called on it. Has he made an impact on at least 1 person to walk away from the dog fighting?  Yes Has he helped to strengthen the case to change the laws in states that allow it?      Yes Has he quit the practice of dog fighting himself therefore sparing many, many dogs lives? Yes Do we all deserve a chance to change our "evil" ways?  I certainly hope so. We have to pick and choose our battles as there are many.  My thoughts, this isn't one. Thank you for all you do!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Valerie Garrett[masked]“Our food should be our medicine and our medicine should be our food.” – Hippocrates

"Volunteers don't get paid, not because they're worthless, but because they're priceless."
~Sherry Anderson


From: Gia Campola <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Mon, May 28, [masked]:05:44 PM
Subject: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows
Hello everyone.  If I am comprehending this incomprehensible series of events correctly, it appears that Michael Vick was recently honored by BET as some type of "Sportsman of the Year".  This award is sponsored by Subway restaurant.  It also appears that BET is planning a series of shows that, I believe, will actually portray this monster as a rehabilitated, repentant man.  Has everyone lost their minds?   This sub human used innocent and defenseless creatures, in the worst manner possible, to satisfy his insatiable greed.  Now he will not only earn a ludicrous football salary, but BET will pay him vast sums, I'm sure, to pretend he's a "nice guy" now?  What message is this sending on so many levels to so many diverse groups?  Please take a moment to tell BET and Subway what you think.  We ALL know how the public mindlessly follows "celebrities" - they can not think that what this man did should be forgotten because he said he's sorry - imagine how many others will follow suit. Shame on both of these industries. Thanks for your time and peace to all.
http://www.subway.com/ContactUs/frmCustomerService.aspx
https://bet.wufoo.com/confirm/contact-us-betcom-management/#public







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