• Coon Bluff Campground - Gear Shakedown Camping Trip
    • What we'll do -------------------- You're invited to attend a camping trip to Coon Bluff Campground on the Lower Salt River in Mesa, Arizona. We usually camp near the parking lot and the bathrooms. Enter these GPS coordinates:[masked], [masked] into any smartphone and Google Maps will provide you with exact driving directions from your location. The campground is located on the water and is the perfect location for a "Spring Shakedown Camp," which means to "shakeout any gear problems or missing items" from your camping equipment list while we're close to home. This helps new campers make sure they will be fully equipped when we start camping along Mogollon Rim and other more distant places later in the summer. Nothing is worse than not bringing enough warm clothing and finding out that is gets cold in the Arizona mountains, even in the summertime when its 110+ degrees in the valley. At a minimum, please try to bring a camping chair, an ice chest full of food and water, beer, soft drinks. To cook and eat, bring cookware, utensils, dishes/silverware, etc. And for a place to sleep, bring a tent, hammock or an RV. This place has plenty of room for RVs to park. Even more important checklist items are two bundles of firewood and a Tonto Parking Pass, which can be purchased at most QuickTrips in Mesa and are on the way. A great campfire and no parking tickets will make this a perfect trip for beginning and experienced campers. If you need to buy some camping equipment, Walmart, Big5 and Craigs List are my favorite spots to score camping gear at great discounts. If you need some starter equipment or would like to borrow something that is missing from your camping checklist, you're welcome to post a note. Most of us have a garage full of old camping gear that can be shared. I usually bring 12’x12’ pop-up awning along with a 2-burner Coleman stove and an 8’ foldable table that will all be available to the group. Possible Activities to Enjoy: ------------------------------------- · Nestled against a steep hill along the Salt River this stand of mesquite creates a lush, shaded environment that is a wildlife and bird watchers dream, even wild horses may thunder thru. · Popular River Access Point for kayaking, tubing and fishing (Feb the water is usually very low) · Kayaks for rent can be delivered if we order 10. Anyone interested contact me and I’ll collect the details. · Rolls OHV, to the north of Saguaro Lake is nearby. · There are also horses for rent nearby. Some Important Campground Rules -------------------------------------------------- Dogs, kids, and alcohol are allowed, But neither dogs nor children should bite or make incessant loud noises. If anyone becomes loud and obnoxious after drinking they will be gagged, duck taped to a tree and not invited to further camping trips. This is a rare problem in this group, but we want the policy to be clear for anyone that doesn't like duck tape. • What to bring --------------------- Everything you need to be basically self-sufficient. Even though we are so close to town this weekend, the goal of a shakedown is to identify any problems with gear, menus, vehicles, packing lists, etc. At a minimum, please bring ice chest full of food and water/drinks, cookware, cooking utensils, dishes/silverware; a tent, hammock or an RV, this place has plenty of room to park. • Important to know ---------------------------- You need a minimum of a Tonto Daily Pass for $8/day or Tonto Discovery Pass, which can be purchased at most QuickTrips in Mesa. There are no self-pay kiosks at this campground. Fines are stiff for those who don’t comply. Here is the USFS link for info on where to buy them. 1. https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/tonto/passes-permits/?cid=fsbdev3_018733 2. https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5331614.pdf

    Coon Bluff

    Coon Bluff · Ft. McDowell, AZ

    47 comments
  • Meet the Group Before We Go Camping
    • What we'll do We have a good group of core campers that go with us on a regular basis, but on most of the camping trips at least 75% of the people are newbies. At the beginning of each year, we have a Meet the Arizona Camping Group activity in the Phoenix area so that people who haven't been camping with us yet can come and meet our group somewhere in the Phoenix area. It is a great way to meet new people that like to camp, hike, kayak, fish and explore the outdoors before driving up north with us to the mountains when it gets hot during Arizona's blazing hot summers. It may be 117 in Phoenix, but it's usually around 85 degrees during the day and around 60 degrees at night in the mountains. Nothing is better than sitting around a big campfire, meeting new people, learning new jokes, sharing stories, grilling over a campfire and having a couple drinks with new friends. In addition to meeting new people, the in-town meetup is a great way to discuss and plan what activities the group would like to do while camping, how to handle planning group meals, find cool people to carpool with and generate a list of group camping equipment such as stoves, cooking utensils, shade tents, etc. so that everyone can share their resources, especially for newbies that may not have all the camping gear they need yet to be comfortable on a camping trip. Even if you don't plan on camping with us on many trips this year, please come out and say "Hi!" The Culinary Dropout - If you haven't been to this place yet you should come just to experience this place. They have great food, an awesome bar and restaurant and a huge game with with table tennis, bean bag tosses, shuffle board, etc. If enough people RSVP, they usually give us a discount on drinks and food. • What to bring • Important to know

    Culinary Dropout at The Yard Tempe

    149 S Farmer Ave Tempe, AZ 85281 · Tempe, AZ

    20 comments
  • Free Buck Butte Camping Trip in Coconino National Forest
    It's been a while, but Spring is here and its time to head up to the mountains to check out the wildflowers, which should be blooming. This area is awesome for taking pictures so bring a camera. Deer, Elk and Turkey are very common in this area. There are plenty of dirt roads for hiking and riding ATVs. Nearby is Lake Mary, which is awesome for kayaking. Up the road is Mormon Lake Lodge or down the road is Happy Jack Lodge, both have horse back riding. This area is perfect for car camping and has plenty of room for RVs to park. There is an abundance of firewood and the moon should be almost full. If you've never seen a full moon rise over the pine trees, then you should attend this trip We will be camping near a spot called Buck Butte, which is located on the north east corner of the intersection at FR 229 and FR 83A. For people with a GPS or a smart phone, enter[masked], [masked] (https://www.google.com/search?q=34.698998%2C+-111.443753&oq=34.698998%2C+-111.443753&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) and then request driving directions. If not, take highway 87 north to Payson, continue through Pine and Strawberry until you get to Clint's Well and take a left going NW on Lake Mary Road also known as Hwy 3. Drive to mile marker 313 and turn left on FR 229, which is located at GPS coordinate[masked], [masked] (https://www.google.com/maps/search/34.687200,+-111.381238?sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj9pYuk0aTTAhVFMyYKHZEWAVMQ8gEIIzAA), which about 13.4 miles past Happy Jack Lodge. If you see the Ranger Station on the left, you went too far. Hint: Click on the GPS coordinates and print maps before you leave. Not all cell phones will work in the mountains. It will suck if you drive this far and can't find us because you didn't print out the driving directions before you left. Once you get to the intersection of 229 and 83a, look for a silver Nissan Frontier Extra Cab. Kris Moa will be our greeter and host for this trip. This is dispersed camping in the national forest. There are no bathrooms or running water. You'll need a tent, warm sleeping bags, and an ice chest full of food, water, and your favorite cold beverages. You'll also need stuff to cook with over a camp fire, including a cooking mit so you don't burn your hands when putting food in and out of the coals. If you're not used to camping out, cook all of your meals at home and put them into several layers of tin foil. This makes it easy to toss them into the fire and heat them up just like a microwave. A shovel makes an awesome tool for putting food into and out of the coals. It will be cool at night, so bring a Jacket and warm clothes. All well-behaved kids, pets and adults are welcomed to attend. Any unruly campers will be duct-taped to a tree and dowsed with water. he he he. In other words, be nice, courteous and very considerate of your fellow campers. The dirt roads are graded, very smooth and can be driven on by all vehicles. There will be three different groups attending, Arizona Camping, Arizona Kayaking and Arizona ATVing, all of which are my groups and should be considered as one single group. Hopefully, I have addressed all questions. If not, please send me an email with any questions on details I have forgotten to include. We look forward to seeing everyone!

    Needs a location

    48 comments
  • Perseid Meteor Shower Star Gazing, Kayaking, ATVing Weekend Campout on 4-Peaks
    NASA Says Perseid Meteor Shower Will Be Twice as Awesome as Usual in 2016 You're invited to attend a free weekend of Perseid Meteor Shower star gazing event (http://www.space.com/33648-perseid-meteor-shower-extra-awesome-2016.html) and campout on the top of Four Peaks overlooking Roosevelt Lake. The spot is on the north side of Four Peaks and has a breathtaking panoramic view via of Roosevelt Lake (http://www.meetup.com/arizona-camping-club/photos/593763/8250308/). We will be able to see phenomenal sunrises to the east and sunsets to the west from this premium camping spot. At night, listening to some classic rock and maybe a little country and watching the hundreds of falling stars that will be streaking through the sky in the early morning from 1:00 am until just before sunrise. The shooting stars should number several hundred per hour. Some of the shooting stars will be so bright you can actually see the smoke coming off the backside of the meteors as they blaze across the sky. It will be phenomenal. After a good nap there are plenty of activities to satisfy your every outdoor adventure desire. There are hundreds of miles of ATV/Jeep trails for the off-roaders (http://www.azgfd.gov/outdoor_recreation/arizona_ohv_trails_places.shtml). If you have a shade tent, please bring it. It will hot while the sun is up, thus the need to drive down the hill and take a cool dip in Lake Roosevelt. There is also some great places for kayaking on Lake Roosevelt (http://www.paddling.net/places/showReport.html?1576) for people that want to bring or rent kayaks. Click here for last year's kayaking pictures (http://www.meetup.com/arizona-camping-club/photos/all_photos/?photoAlbumId=330629). People with boats can go fishing/water skiing on Arizona's largest reservoir. As you can see, the Tonto Cliff Dwellings (http://www.nps.gov/tont/index.htm) are definitely worth checking out. Hikers can hike to Brown's Peak (http://www.toddshikingguide.com/Hikes/Arizona/Tonto/Tonto4.htm) that starts at the Lone Pine Trailhead (http://www.arizonahikingtrails.com/hikingpages/lonepineloop.html) and goes by an old Amethyst (purple diamonds) mine, which is considered by many to contain some of the United State's premier Amethyst gemstones. The mine is a private claim located between the southern two peaks. There is plenty of room at this location for tents, popup tents and big RVs. The road to get to this location is a smooth graded dirt road with a jiggle factor of only 1 jiggle. The highest peak of the Four Peaks is Brown's Peak, which reaches an elevation of approximately 7,657 feet. Brown's Peak is the northernmost peak of the four. Hint: Click on every link to see the pictures associated with each GPS coordinate. You don't need a GPS unit to look at the pictures!! Simply zoom in or out to view where this place is or click on the "directions" link to enter your home address and print driving instructions from your address to this location. Print out the maps before you leave in case you lose cell phone service on the way up. Driving Directions: Go North on Beeline Highway and take right on Four Peaks Road also known as Cline Cabin Road (forest road 143), which is located at N[masked]° W[masked]° (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=N33.678272%C2%B0%20W111.502567%C2%B0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl). Drive 15-20 miles until you see this Lone Pine Trailhead sign (http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/7/6/5/0/600_8250288.jpeg) at GPS Coordinate:[masked] [masked] (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=33.7210%20-111.3374&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl), which is also Pigeon Spring Rd. (forest road 648) and take right. Drive about 1 mile and look for the Lone Pine Saddle Trailer Parking Area sign (http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/7/6/6/6/600_8250310.jpeg) at GPS Coordinate:[masked] [masked] (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=33.707142%20-111.337511&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl) and take a right and drive up the hill. There is a large parking lot that has plenty of room for parking and camping. We need to setup up all the tents around the edges of the parking lot so that we can put down large tarps in the middle of the parking lot. (hint: bring large tarp) Everyone should also park their car along the edge of the parking lot so that we have a road going between the tents/parked cars and the tarps in the middle. The fire pit will be set up at the south side of camp. Everyone please bring at least one or two bundles of firewood so we can have a good fire. If you have a portable bathroom, please set it up on the north end of camp. Here is who has RSVP'ed so far from my different Camping, Kayaking and ATV Meetup Groups: Camping Meetup: Keith McCamper Lisa +1 Josh Kim Manish Brett Robert ATV Meetup: Thom Kayaking Meetup: Kimi Jon K.

    Needs a location

    33 comments
  • 4th of July Fireworks Extravaganza Campout Weekend in Prescott
    You're invited to attend a weekend campout at White Spar Campground, a kayaking trip on Watson Lake and a 4th of July Fireworks Extravaganza/Carnival celebration in Prescott, Arizona. July 4th in Celebration in Prescott Pioneer Park 4th of July Celebration in Prescott, AZ, which has one of the largest fireworks shows in Arizona and for family fun there is an all-day carnival that includes zip-lining, water slides, bungee jumping, trampoline jumping, climbing walls, games and more. Great food, live entertainment, free fireworks begin at 9:00 pm at Pioneer Park, $15 for carnival wrist bands that lasts from Noon until 10:00 pm. Please call[masked] for more information. White Spar Campground Located in the ponderosa pine forest along Highway 89, this campground is within an easy drive from the city of Prescott. The camp sites are generally large enough to accommodate most recreational vehicles (not exceeding 40 feet in length). The paved road system to and throughout the campground makes for easy access to each camping site. Click here for directions (https://www.google.com/maps/place/White+Spar+Campground/@34.5033495,-112.5215575,10636m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0000000000000000:0x211cddc7b653b414!8m2!3d34.5091913!4d-112.4765575). There are 57 first come, first served campsites ($14 per night for 10 people max) with picnic tables, fire pits, and grills. Drinking water for use on site and 4 vault toilets. We will need someone to go down on Thursday and save a couple of campsites. Please post a comment if you can go down early. There is no wood at this location so everyone will need to bring at least one bundle of firewood. Kayaking/Hiking at Watson Lake Watson Lake at Watson Park (http://www.arizona-leisure.com/watson-lake.html) is a very beautiful lake to kayak or hike around and conveniently located about 4 miles from Prescott and features fishing, boating, kayaking, canoeing, hiking, rock climbing, camping and day picnicking. Watson's water surface size is about 380 surface acres and distinguished by its sky blue calm waters surrounded by huge granite boulders. Please post all questions in the comment section below.

    Needs a location

    70 comments
  • Sedona Camping Trip near Stoneman Lake in the Coconino National Forest
    You're invited to attend a free campout in the Coconino National Forest near Sedona, which means that there will be no running water or bathrooms. The camping fee is one bundle of wood or the initiative to gather wood for the group campfire once you get to the camp site. The dirt roads are very smooth, graded gravel roads. Everyone is welcome and we encourage new members to RSVP for this camping trip. For many campers, this will be their first trip, but don't worry it is very easy to make friends quickly with our group. Pet and kids are welcome as long as they are well-behaved. All you need is a tent, sleeping bag and enough food/drinks to enjoy a great campout for the weekend. You may show up/leave whenever it is convenient for your schedule. Please read and print this entire camping trip profile the day before you leave. It will include the exact driving directions and important day trip details about different day trips that you might want to plan during daylight hours. Depending on your cell phone's coverage once you are in mountains may prove problematic. Day Trips: • Pink Jeep Tours of Red Rock Canyons • Cliff Jumping at Old Fashioned Swimming Hole • Freezing Cold Water Slide at Slide Rock Park • Shopping at Lots of Arts/Craft Stores in Sedona • Plenty of Hiking/Mountain Biking Trails • Plenty of Wild Life Photo Ops (Birds, Deer, Elk & Turkeys) • Guaranteed Secret Trout Fishing Holes Driving Directions: Drive north on I-17 towards Flagstaff an take exit 213 to Stoneman Lake. Take road 213 east and drive approximately 6 miles towards Stoneman Lake. At the first T or dirt road 83 take a right and drive southeast 0.71 miles and look on the right side for people camping. We will probably be the only group in this area, but be on the look out for people waving you down with flash light. If it is still light outside, you will see a big cinder pit bowl on the left, which is great for jeeps and ATVs and sometimes has a stock tank in the bottom of the bowl. There are two spots here. The 1st is right across from the cider pit at GPS:[masked]° [masked]°. The 2nd spot, which is better because of shade trees is at at[masked]° [masked]°. Camping Conduct Recommendations: Treat everyone with a calm, cool, collected demeanor. We expect you to keep your campsite clean, pack out all of your trash and make sure all fires are extinguished until no heat can be felt with a hand hovering several inches above the ashes. Anyone that raises their voice or treats others poorly will be asked to leave the campout and then deleted from the group for obvious reasons. Please feel free to ask questions and talk amongst yourselves to put together various caravans from the various locals in the Phoenix area if you want to travel up the hill with a group of people.

    Needs a location

    27 comments
  • Knoll Lake Weekend Camping Trip in the Coconino National Forest North of Payson
    You're invited to attend a weekend campout in the Coconino National Forest on the Mogollon Rim just north of Payson. The camping fee is one bundle of wood ($5), which you can buy at Home Depot, Qwick Trip or many convenience stores. This ensures that the group will have a great fire to sit around in the evenings and is usually the best part of the whole trip. Knoll Lake is located on Forest Road 300 between Hwy 89 and Hwy 260. It is much quicker to take a right on 260 in Payson, drive to Woods Canyon Lake then take the Forest Road 300 to Knoll Lake. As you drive towards Knoll Lake the dirt road will take a sharp right after the camping sign. If you make it to the official Knoll Lake Campground or Knoll Lake, you drove too far. This is a free camping spot in the national forest so there is no running water or bathrooms. It is possible to drive up with a car and setup camp. No hiking required. When you RSVP, it would be great to list what type of vehicle you'll be driving so that everyone will be able to recognize the group's vehicles. It would also be great to know if you plan to bring a kayak, which can be rented, or an ATV. This place has an awesome island that you can kayak to and then climb to the top for an awesome view of the lake. This will also be a very busy weekend so if someone can go up on Thursday night and reserve a spot for about 20 to 30 people that would be very helpful. Driving Directions This best way to get driving directions is cut and paste these GPS coordinates:[masked]° [masked]° into Google Maps or any smartphone or GPS unit. Next, click on the "Get Directions" button and type your home address or starting point. This will automatically draw you a precise map. Make sure you watch for the Big Brown signs that say Knoll Lake. You can go North through Payson or take a right in Payson at the McDonalds. Either way works, but the route via Woods Canyon is an easier route for regular cars. All roads are graded gravel roads and easy to travel. On your way home, you might drive our the other direction be the drive down beside the Mogollon Rim is complete awesome. Things to Do Knoll Lake is a great for place trout fishing, kayaking, hiking, mountain biking and riding ATVs. If you have some toys, bring them out and I will tell you exactly where to go for maximum fun.

    Needs a location

    224 comments
  • Knoll Lake Weekend Camping Trip in Coconino National Forest North of Payson
    You're invited to attend a weekend campout in the Coconino National Forest on the Mogollon Rim just north of Payson. Knoll Lake is located on Forest Road 300 between Hwy 89 and Hwy 260. It is much quicker to take a right on 260 in Payson, drive to Woods Canyon Lake then take the Forest Road 300 to Knoll Lake. As you drive towards Knoll Lake the dirt road will take a sharp right after the camping signs. It is free to camp here. If you make it to the Knoll Lake campground or Knoll Lake, you drove too far. Better, go to Google maps and search for GPS coordinate[masked], [masked] (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=34.429160,+-111.101242&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x872c207ef3cb5609:0xcd10084da00d01bc,34.429160,+-111.101242&gl=us&ei=KYKVUe2vAfO40gHK0IGIBw&ved=0CCsQ8gEwAA), then click on the Get Directions button and enter your home address. Look for Chad who will be driving a black dodge nitro with a pop up camper and should be there around 3:00 pm. Look at your fellow campers pictures before you leave. This area is great for trout fishing, kayaking, hiking and mountain biking.

    Needs a location

    $2.00
    44 comments
  • Mountaintop Weekend Campout on 4-Peaks
    You're invited to attend a free weekend star gazing event (http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-119) and camp out on the top of Four Peaks overlooking Roosevelt Lake from Friday night until Sunday afternoon. This is the perfect time of year to make this drive because all of the wild flowers will be blooming because of the recent rains. There may even be a little snow to play it at the top of 4-peaks. The spot is on the north side of Four Peaks and has a breathtaking panoramic view via of Roosevelt Lake (http://www.meetup.com/arizona-camping-club/photos/593763/8250308/). We will be able to see phenomenal sunrises to the east and sunsets to the west (http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/7/6/5/2/600_8250290.jpeg) from this premium camping spot. This event is kid and pet friendly as long as they are well-behaved. If not, we will tie them to a tree. :o) You need to bring a sleeping bag, air mattress and your favorite soft/hard drinks. Once the sun comes up you'll need pop-up shade canopy's and tents. Bring warm clothes because it will get chilly at night. Everybody needs to bring 2 bags of wood, which can be purchased at most QwikTrips. No wood makes for a chilly night. There are plenty of activities to satisfy your every outdoor adventure desire. There are hundreds of miles of ATV/Jeep trails for the off-roaders (http://www.azgfd.gov/outdoor_recreation/arizona_ohv_trails_places.shtml). People with kayaks can head down for a day of kayaking on Lake Roosevelt (http://www.paddling.net/places/showReport.html?1576). Click here for last year's kayaking pictures (http://www.meetup.com/arizona-camping-club/photos/all_photos/?photoAlbumId=330629). People with boats can go fishing/water skiing on Arizona's largest reservoir. The Tonto Cliff Dwellings (http://www.nps.gov/tont/index.htm) also are worth checking out. Hikers can hike to Brown's Peak (http://www.toddshikingguide.com/Hikes/Arizona/Tonto/Tonto4.htm) that starts at the Lone Pine Trailhead (http://www.arizonahikingtrails.com/hikingpages/lonepineloop.html) and goes by an old Amethyst (purple diamonds) mine, which is considered by many to contain some of the United State's premier Amethyst gemstones. The mine is a private claim located between the southern two peaks. There is plenty of room at this location for tents, popup tents and big RVs. The road to get to this location is a smooth graded dirt road with a jiggle factor of only 1 jiggle. The highest peak of the Four Peaks is Brown's Peak, which reaches an elevation of approximately 7,657 feet. Brown's Peak is the northernmost peak of the four. Hint: Click on every link to see the pictures associated with each GPS coordinate. You don't need a GPS unit to look at the pictures!! Simply zoom in or out to view where this place is or click on the "directions" link to enter your home address and print driving instructions from your address to this location. Driving Directions: Go North on Beeline Highway and take right on Four Peaks Road also known as Cline Cabin Road (forest road 143), which is located at N[masked]° W[masked]° (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=N33.678272%C2%B0%20W111.502567%C2%B0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl). Drive 15-20 miles until you see this Lone Pine Trailhead sign (http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/7/6/5/0/600_8250288.jpeg) at GPS Coordinate:[masked] [masked] (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=33.7210%20-111.3374&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl), which is also Pigeon Spring Rd. (forest road 648) and take a right. Drive about 1 mile and look for the Lone Pine Saddle Trailer Parking Area sign (http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/7/6/6/6/600_8250310.jpeg) at GPS Coordinate:[masked] [masked] (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=33.707142%20-111.337511&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl) and take a right and drive up the hill. There is a large parking lot that has plenty of room for parking and camping. You can also come up the back way from Lake Roosevelt on El Oso Road. It would be wise decision to print off these driving instructions and bring them with you so you don't get lost. Look for John's blue and white blazer. Other greeter's vehicle description will be forthcoming.

    Needs a location

    $2.00
    21 comments
  • Coon Bluff Camping Trip on the Salt River
    You're invited to attend a weekend camping trip to Coon Bluff on the Lower Salt River. You will need to buy a Tonto pass for two nights. You can usually buy one online or at the Qwik Trip on University and Ellsworth. We will be camped on the right hand side as soon as you hit the campground near the bathrooms. There is no wood here so please bring two bags of wood with you. There is also a charge of $5 per person to pay the organizers for their time and effort to organize the event. Kids and pets are free.

    Coon Bluff Campground

    Salt River · Mesa, AZ

    $5.00
    4 comments