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Re: [humanism-174] Belief Systems

From: ken
Sent on: Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:59 AM
Mark,

Though I can't cite the sources, I recall reading in a couple books long
ago that Einstein believed in god.  Last week on NPR an Einstein
biographer (with a book out, of course) was interviewed on a talk show.
 Someone called in with this very question and the author went into
quite a bit of detail in answering the question, even citing some of
Einstein's correspondence, correspondence which, I just found, is also
mentioned at <http://en.wikiped...;­.


ken

On 07/18/[masked]:10 PM somebody named Marni Tiborsky wrote:
> Ken,
> 
> I'm not so sure that Einstein held a belief in God. I know that he spoke of
> God, but maybe he was only "blurbing". I said "God damn it" today but I'm
> surely "the hell" not religious.
> 
> But seriously, are there any quotes or writings of his that might
> substantiate this assumption? (excluding God-play-dice)
> 
> Worthy of further research!
> 
> Mark
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of
> ken
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18,[masked]:31 PM
> To: [address removed]
> Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Belief Systems
> 
> 
> Excellent point, Charles.  Science gave up on ascertaining causality
> quite a while ago.  At most, contemporary research demonstrates a
> statistical correlation between two phenomena.
> 
> In a similar vein there's been talk of "rational belief" and comments
> made that those who believe in God/god are less intelligent than "us
> atheists."  We should remember that Einstein held a belief in God,
> albeit not necessarily that of his Jewish heritage or of a personal god
> who directly participated in his life.  Is anyone here asserting that
> they're smarter or more rational than Einstein?
> 
> Re: "rational belief": this is oxymoronic, like "dry water."  Just as
> there's a quantum difference between water and ice, likewise rationality
> and belief are qualitatively distinct.  For the prototypical explication
> of this distinction, have a look at Plato's "Allegory of the Cave"; a
> heftier look at the separate worlds of belief and thought can be had in
> "The Ever-Present Origin," authored by Jean Gebser.  Existentialists
> such as Martin Buber and Soren Kierkegaard also discuss belief and its
> distinction from knowledge.  Understanding this (critical) distinction
> between the experience of belief and that of knowledge, reason, and
> rationality helps to understand how someone like Einstein, or even
> someone less the genius, can hold a belief in the spiritual.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> ken
> 
> 
> On 07/18/[masked]:31 AM somebody named charles pervo wrote:
>> WHEN I SEE THE WORD 'PROOF' APPLIED TO PHYSICAL SCIENCE, I AM CONFIDENT
> THE USER IS NOT A SCIENTIST.  USED LITERALLY, IN THE SCIENCES, 'PROOF'
> APPLIES ONLY TO MATHEMATICS.  AUTHOR AND FREETHINKER VICTOR STENGER POINTS
> OUT THAT THE MEANING OF 'PROOF' IN SCIENCE IS MUCH LIKE ITS USE IN THE LEGAL
> SYSTEM - BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.  AM I BEING PEDANTIC? YES AND NO: WE
> MUST BE CAREFUL NOT TO LEAVE ANY HOLES OUR MANY OPPONENTS COULD BREACH.
> SCIENTIST FORMULATE A HYPOTHESIS, TEST IT, AND IT MAY BECOME PART OF A
> MODEL, OR THEORY.
>> ---- Maude <[address removed]> wrote: 
>>>  
>>> In a message dated 7/18/[masked]:22:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
>>> [address removed] writes:
>>>
>>> Galileo was  persecuted for proving that the Earth revolved around the
> Sun 
>>> instead of  visa-versa. This defied holy scripture at the time.  
>>>
>>>
>>> Ah yes! Thank you. This of course, prompted me to do some research and I
> 
>>> found that who I had been thinking of other than Galileo who was
> persecuted by  
>>> the inquisition, was Newton (my catholic high school education is a tad
> foggish 
>>>  at this point) for his theory of gravity. Newton not only could prove
> that 
>>> the  planet's motion was centered around the sun but also proved that
> really, 
>>> the  universe and it's motion could be explained as being subject to 
>>> mathematical  laws. Although Newton himself was religious and stated that
> his 
>>> mathematics  explained how and why the planets moved, that it did not
> explain how the 
>>> planets  were put into motion....he was a subject of the inquisition
> anyway, the 
>>> thinking  being that his math removed god from being necessary for the 
>>> revolving of the  universe. 
>>>  
>>> Then, with more research, I discovered that no one past 3 BC who was half
> 
>>> educated thought the earth to be flat. The church never had a problem
> with a  
>>> round earth as most clergy were educated and had studied Plato and Euclid
> 
>>> (father of geometry!-I remember that!). They myth was revived in the
> 1830's by  
>>> some guy who was hell bent to take a couple of Psalms literally and
> started to  
>>> claim that the earth was flat. And those people are still among us,
> saying that 
>>>  photos of the earth from space are a hoax. lol!
>>>  
>>> Maude
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ********************­****************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
> AOL at 
>>> http://discover.a...­
>>
>>
>>
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
> This message was sent by Marni Tiborsky ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
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