Simon,
If the person is adding so little to the project then I suggest you do
without them.
Whats that? You need them? then bloody well pay for their time.
As an employer you need to recognise that you have to _invest_ in your
staff, to bring them up to speed on how you want the work done.
This idea, imported from overseas, that 'trainees' should work for
nothing in the hopes the employer likes them and gives them more work is
anathema to the Australian working mentality & social conscience.
We do not do this here - if you have done it then you have gullibly
fallen victim to someone not just acting unethically but illegally.
Please dont re-enact the crimes that have been perpetrated on you.
How are they to know that you wont 'try them out' then 'not like their
work' and let them go... and then wash and repeat?
You wouldn't do that? Maybe, but lots of people would and do. I'm sure
you don't want to look like that sort of person?
If you are worried about the 'fit' with your team. then you put them on
a trial for X months - but you _pay_ them for that time.
In this country, we do not need to work for nothing in the hopes that
employers will later pay us - we have a social safety net called the
'unemployment benefit'. It may not be much, but it usually keeps one off
the streets.
No, like Daniel, I have never worked for free either (ignoring discount
invoices to non-profits, voluntarily, because I wanted to help them).
I did spend years training during which time I had no income, but not
while someone else soaked up a profit out of my work.
Get real.
warmly,
Lea
--
Lea de Groot B.App.Sc. (Math), M.Cog.Sc.
Elysian Systems
On 11/04/[masked]:07 am, Simon Mcknight wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
> Firstly thank you for taking the time to respond. As a point of law
> I completely understand so please do not think that I we are wanting to
> break any laws here.
>
> What a lot of employees do not full realise is that unless you are 100%
> trained in the exact job that you are working on then training id
> required and that training is a cost to the business that you are
> helping. That training cost often is far far more of a cost than the job
> that you are working on.
>
> So it would be much much better for us to spend our (Valuable) time on a
> fully trained potential employee. In the long run it would be less of a
> cost if you take into account our time spent helping with the brief,
> helping them set up the templates and jobs in our system, helping them
> make critical design decisions. 9 times out of ten we are sitting with
> them for most of the job to make sure it goes out to spec and to the
> customers expectations.
>
> You are a very luck person to never have to be unemployed for an
> extended period of time. There are a lot of people (Myself Included) who
> have lived day to day desperately trying to find a job with no real
> world experience and if I was given an opportunity to do so I would have
> done whatever it takes to make it happen.
>
> That is the story for many of us in the industry. I am simply offering a
> chance to those who are prepared to take it. It is not for everyone and
> I completely respect your view based on your history (That you have told
> me). I had it hard. I had to earn a position in a company and did not
> have it given to me. I do not regret it for a second as it taught me to
> work hard and expect nothing.
>
> I am making sure that we are not breaking any laws and please do not
> think that there is not a financial incentive offered. For those out
> there that can see the opportunity here I want you. For those who can
> not see it then I completely respect your view and wish you all the best
> in your search for work.
>
> We are looking to hire this person should they (after training) fit in
> with the team and the type of work that we produce.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> *Simon Mcknight *
>
> Production Manager
>
> Free Call: [masked]
> Office: 304 Montague Road, West End, 4101, QLD, Australia
> *Mobile:*[masked]
> Email:[address removed] <mailto:[address removed]>
> Visit:** www.tprmedia.com.au <https://www.tprmed...;
>
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> <https://www.thepeo...; | Web Hosting
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>
> On 11 April[masked]:52, Daniel Joshua Holmes
> <[address removed] <mailto:[address removed]>> wrote:
>
> Hi Simon,
>
> I’m curious as to where the notion comes from that you can pull
> people in without (or with little) experience and give them
> experience while not paying for it? If they are doing the work, no
> matter how in-experienced or how much investment needs to be made on
> your behalf they are still doing the work.
>
> The only time it is acceptable to be doing something similar is in a
> teaching capacity. You’re either going to ask for payment for
> teaching or you’re going to do it for free. The minute someone is
> working on an actual project and doing work, no matter how small
> they are entitled to pay. Not only by law but also ethically.
>
> If companies like Hungry Jacks or McDonalds took your approach, many
> people might not have ever got experience at all.
>
> "All of us did free work for companies to earn our stripes” — I
> never did. Any company I did work for was invoiced at a standard
> rate and given a discount and longer deadlines than normal.
>
> Any experience I had prior to these jobs were projects I worked on
> myself or with other friends and colleagues in the industry.
>
> It’s starting web people and companies like yours who think they are
> doing people a favour that are hurting this industry. No matter
> what, time is money, both for the person and for the company.
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Daniel J Holmes*/
> /*<https://www.refres...;
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Simon Mcknight
> <[address removed] <mailto:[address removed]>> wrote:
>
> Hi Ben,
> Thank you for shooting us that link. I am having the legal
> boffins go over it now to find a more realistic approach to it.
> The realities of the real world and real business environment
> are always different to a perfect world on paper. That being
> said we all came from the same place. All of us did free work
> for companies to earn our stripes and build our portfolios for
> years until we were hired.
>
> Job are earned in the real world. I can not wait to show people
> wanting real world experience how jobs are rolled out plus allow
> them to be able to put their work on their portfolio.
>
> We have never hired anyone without real world experience (Paid
> or not) and I do not know very many other companies that do.
>
> Again thank you for shooting this through. We are going to see
> if we can help students and job seekers in the future or not. I
> hope so.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> *Simon Mcknight *
>
> Production Manager
>
> Free Call:[masked] <tel:1800%20896%20599>
> Office: 304 Montague Road, West End, 4101, QLD, Australia
> *Mobile:*[masked] <tel:0413%20422%20511>
> Email:[address removed] <mailto:[address removed]>
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>
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> <https://www.thepeo...; | Web Hosting
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> On 10 April[masked]:34, Ben Maden <[address removed]
> <mailto:[address removed]>> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone
> I don't want to be a party pooper but Internship Rules are
> in place to protect anyone working on your IP or on your
> stuff for clients.... if it looks like employment and they
> aren't paid it'd probably be breaching this...
> https://www.fairwo...
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Ben
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Simon Mcknight
> <[address removed] <mailto:[address removed]>>
> wrote:
>
> *GRAPHIC DESIGN INTERNSHIP* - BRISBANE AREA
>
> Hello Graphic Design students in Brisbane QLD Australia.
>
> We are now looking for a keen graphic designer to work
> closely with our lead designer on real world projects.
>
> LOGOS
> WEBSITE DESIGNS
> FLASH ANIMATION (If you are skilled)
>
> *_You will receive:_*
> 1. Real world experience
> 2. Written recommendation from TPR Media
> 3. Live work to use in your CV / Resume
> 4. If you add value to our business expect to have a
> position created for you at the end of the internship.
>
> Please contact me if you are interested in this opportunity.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> *Simon Mcknight *
>
> Production Manager
>
> Free Call:[masked] <tel:1800%20896%20599>
> Office: 304 Montague Road, West End, 4101, QLD, Australia
> *Mobile:*[masked] <tel:0413%20422%20511>
> Email:[address removed] <mailto:[address removed]>
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