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The Portland French Bulldog Meetup Group Message Board › New member question: Frenchton/Frenchbo/Boston-Frenchie mix

New member question: Frenchton/Frenchbo/Boston-Frenchie mix

A former member
Post #: 1
Hi everyone! My name is Aimee and I am new to the group. I grew up with dogs (Irish wolfhounds, Great Dane, English-bulldog, Australian cattle dogs) and now own a condo in Lake Oswego with my partner and 11 year old daughter and 3 fur-kids(cats who have never known a dog). I am in school full time and my plan is to adopt early this summer (late spring) so I have several months to devote to our new puppy before easing back into school.

I have been a fan of the Frenchie for years and am looking for some opinions on the Boston/Frenchie mix. (please, no flaming. I know there are strong opinions about our babies and over-breeding, hybrids, etc. I am just looking for some opinions from folks living with these lovely little spirits).

What do you all think of this cross? Anyone own a Frenchbo? Do you think that crossing these breeds helps alleviate certain health concerns or make them worse? Any comments on a Boston over a Frenchie?

The planned litter I had in mind will be a 3/4 Frenchie 1/4 Boston mix.

thanks in advance,

Aimee
A former member
Post #: 557
Aimee,
How wonderful of you to be doing your homework before going out and adding a family member.

First and foremost when looking to buy any pet, you want to make sure that you are buying from a "reputable" or code of ethics breeder. Code of ethics breeders absolutely DO NOT engage in deliberate cross breeding. Code of ethics breeders breed not for money (like designer breeders) but to maintain and IMPROVE the breed standard, and they health test their dogs before breeding (Another thing that designer breeders don't do).

Now having said that, another big lie from the designer breeders is that crosses are healthier. NOT TRUE. Typically what happens is that the dogs inherit the health problems of both breeds. They become compounded, not eliminated. And I can speak from experience having fostered through rescue several of these "designer" breeds. Frenchie and Boston crosses as well as Frenchie/English crosses. These poor dogs were a mess.

Here is a little blurb from Dr. Libbye Miller, DVM who is very well respected in the world of dogs

"Adorable mixed breeds" get cancer, epilepsy, allergies, heart
disease, and orthopedic problems just like purebreds. I see it every
day in my veterinary practice but mixed breed dogs aren't tracked like
the purebreds so they have a reputation as "healthier" that is
actually undeserved in many cases."

It is so sad that a lot of folks, including young veterinarians these
days, buy into the "hybrid vigor" baloney. The vet schools have been
infiltrated by the Animal Rights Extremists, who are teaching them
this junk science in order to push their agenda
."



And if you ever have time, look at the research work conducted by Charles Rupert Stockard, PhD. He was one of the forefathers of genetics and studied genetics by mixing purebred dogs. Again, disasterous results, especially when it came to the structure of the dogs. Jaws that did not match up, torso's too long for the legs etc.

There is some evidence that Heinz 57 dogs who are a mix of so many breeds that you cannot tell what they are, may have less issues like hip dysplasia, and some of the other issues.

Bostons are more energetic and love to play. They will chase a stick or ball for hours on end always bringing it back to you for more play. Frenchies are more laid back and will play for a little while, but then prefer to be couch potatos. So it really depends on your lifestyle as to which breed would work best for you and fit into your lifestyle.

My personal advice would to be to find a reputable breeder of either the French Bulldog or a Boston Terrier to find your next family member. You can find reputable Boston Breeders in your area by contacting
the Boston Terrier Club of Portland http://bostontcp.topc...­
And for Frenchies the Pacific Northwest French Bulldog club http://www.pnwfbc.org...­


Donna
Gnosticfire French Bulldogs and Boston Terriers
VP & Education Dir., French Bulldog Club of Puget Sound
Member PNWFBC, BTCWW , BTCA
http://www.gnosticfir...­




A former member
Post #: 2
Hi Donna! Thank you so much for this informative reply. I definitely agree with some of the things you've mentioned and have a few questions, if you don't mind.

I am a bit confused by different opinions about what makes an 'ethical' breeder. Deliberate cross breeding cannot improve the breed because the dogs inherit genetic problems from both breeds? A good breeder only improves the breed by pure breeding for traits that uphold the breed standard?

I have a hard time believing in absolutes. To me, there would always be the possibility that any animal can have health issues for that animal; combining two breeds could definitely throw a puppy that ended up with those two 'bad'(health) traits. But couldn't the same be said for two frenchies throwing a pup that exemplifies the 'bad' traits in the frenchie? It stands to reason that you might also throw a pup that has the best of both parents/breeds.

Don't Bostons and Frenchies have similar issues? Isn't part of the issue with pure breeds is that the gene pool is limited due to what might be considered back-breeding (there are only so many pure-bred Frenchies around)? It reminds me of the royal family in England; 'keeping it in the family' sometimes causes bad teeth.

I hear so many conflicting accounts from people with 'mutt' dogs (cross breeds) and pure breeds. On both sides of the fence. Some say that there is a place for 'pure breeding' to uphold the standard for that breed. But listen, Frenchies (and English) can't procreate naturally, give birth without assistance. Doesn't that mean that they would have died out without human intervention? Keeping the breed standard makes sense for showing, I suppose, but I wonder: what if someone didn't want to uphold the breed standards, wasn't interested in showing, but bred two healthy lovely specimens of these two breeds together to create a good pet, not to further the show line.

I so appreciate your view. You aren't alone, thats for sure. I also hear from people who have pure bred Frenchies that 'are a mess' and wish they'd have gone with a pound pup. To each their own.

I, personally, think you can get health problems with any animal be it two different breeds or a pure bred dog. I don't think that hybrid dogs offer insurance against health problems; I do think that opening up the gene pool a little can't be such a bad thing, with healthy parents and honest intentions.

I intend to read up on Dr. Stockards research. When in doubt, I go back to mendel's pea plant study with my little grid boxes.

Again, I sincerely appreciate your time and information. This is a big decision and I really want to do my research.

Thank you,

Aimee
A former member
Post #: 558
There are some very long explanations that you can find all over the internet, on breed club sites and rescue sites with regards to the differences between ethical breeders and unethical breeders.

The condensed version is that ethical breeders are into the sport/breeding of dogs because they love the dogs. They love learning everything that they can-the nuances of the standard, the history of the breed (not just the origin, but the kennels and the famous dogs who made an impact on the breed), the health issues in the breed, the latest research and testing on health issues, participating in those research studies. And they health test their breeding dogs for these health issues. Yes, even with health testing you will still get issues. But with health testing you can help to decrease those occurances.

Think of the biggest car fanatic you know, the biggest tech. geek you know or gearhead. Someone who is passionate about their hobby and can tell you everything you wanted to know. Their eyes light up when they start to talk about their hobby. Well, that's how dog show people/ethical breeders are. We are the dog geeks. smile

Unethical breeders are into dogs for the money. They don't do health testing. They don't really understand the health issues of the breed, they don't study the latest research. They just want to make money and think that breeding dogs is a quick and easy way.

Also, regarding the hybrid term and opening up the gene pool. Here is another interesting article. In order for a hybrid to be a hybrid, they must be from two different species.
http://home.comcast.n...­

Not all puppies from a show line will become show dogs. Breeders keep the best of the best for their programs and the rest go to loving pet homes. When you have people who do not understand the nuances of the standard breeding dogs, then you tend to get what I call a "drift". Pretty soon they really don't look or BEHAVE anything like what the standard says they should.

Isn't part of the issue with pure breeds is that the gene pool is limited due to what might be considered back-breeding (there are only so many pure-bred Frenchies around)?

No this really isn't an issue. People do line breeding but without line breeding purebred anything would not have been developed. If people continue to line-breed within their kennel (usually again puppy millers or BYBs) you will have issues. However most breeders also out-breed to other lines that are not related to theirs. AND another interesting fact about the purebred dog is that science has found them to be one of the most perfect models for genetic research. By studying their breed specific DNA samples they may help to unlock the cure to cancer and many other diseases.
http://research.nhgri...­

I certainly don't have anything against mixed breed dogs. Until 8 yrs ago all of my dogs were pound puppies or grocery store mutt puppies. What I do have issues with are the people mixing breeds and then touting them for something more than they are and charging an arm and a leg for them. It's their motives that I don't agree with-greed. If you want a cross and don't want to support unethical breeders, you might also check rescue. Our local and national rescues see a lot of these crosses who need homes.




Donna
Gnosticfire French Bulldogs and Boston Terriers
VP & Education Dir., French Bulldog Club of Puget Sound
Member PNWFBC, BTCWW , BTCA
http://www.gnosticfir...­



When the world says, "Give up," Hope whispers, "Try it one more time" -Anonymous



A former member
Post #: 560
I almost forgot.
So it sounds like you have been talking to a breeder already.

Ask your breeder this:
"What health testing have you done on the parents?"

This is some of the testing that they should be telling you they are doing (and providing you with certification numbers that you can look up on the OFA, CHIC or CERF websites)

OFA -x-rays on spines for hemivertabrae, hips for loose hip sockets, maybe even trachea x-rays
Vet clearances and certs. for luxating patellas or cardiac issues, maybe even elbows

CERF or DNA testing for the eyes. Juvenile cataracts are an inherited disease and there is a DNA test for it.

If they poo poo health testing then they don't care about the dogs, they only want your money.
A former member
Post #: 10
I, too, did a lot of research before purchasing my frenchie, Stella. I ended up going to the Rose City Dog Show and talked to every breeder there. (it's in January, by the way). I met many wonderful breeders who truly love these dogs. I eventually got Stella from Shirley Stevenson from Monet French Bulldogs. She is very knowledgeable & sold me a beautiful, healthy dog. This may be a good place to talk to a lot of breeders from different states. Good luck. I hope to see you at a meet up sometime. Beth & Stella
A former member
Post #: 3
Donna! You crack me up! Dog nerds. That, I can totally relate to. I am a nerd, too in my own way. Big nerd. A nerd with a dream of being owned by a Frenchie. And you and Gracian have schooled me and made me a believer! So thank you for the reality check. I have switched gears and am looking for a pure-bred pup from an ethical breeder.

Beth! I am an auntie to a pug 'Stella' who owns my brother and his partner down in California. Thank you for the info. I definitely plan on going to the show: I watch them all the time on tv and haven't ever gone to one for dogs. It would be a great opportunity to mingle with people who may be 'mypuppyMomma/Daddy'. I literally can't wait to meet up.

In an ideal world, I would like to bring home a puppy around June of this year. I have the summer off ( I am in med school at the moment) and would be available 24/7 for a solid summer to start the love affair off right.

If anyone can recommend a local breeder ( I would drive to N. California or Washington or maybe even Idaho) I would appreciate it. Right now, I am gathering puppy things and daydreaming.

Again, I want to thank you, Donna and Gracian (who emailed me privately and has given me a ton of info too).

Have a great morning!

Aimee
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