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Re: [furries-290] Apology for Being Overly Harsh on Kayfox

From: Blaidd G.
Sent on: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 7:19 AM
I'd like to throw some numbers out there. And before you have Ogre yell at me, I'd like to point out he joined the dark side later. Anyway, I've been on #Seattlefurs. At any one time, there's typically around 50 people. Furlife just broke 900 (I'll do a round of back slapping and scritches at 1000). Sure, a few of them from a long time ago have fallen off, and a couple have had to make new accounts for whatever reason, but even if it was 10%, that's less than 100, still leaves 800 members. So you really can't judge the group as a whole from what you see from a few select furs on the IRC. And as far as I can tell, about half of them aren't even in Furlife, or aren't active anyway. And any time a very large group gathers, there will be some who share interests and form smaller subgroups. You can call them cliques, but in general they're not what most people think of when they hear that term. I have never been excluded from one group because I have friends in another. I started off shy, but i've gotten to know a lot of people, and almost every one of them is awesome.

T-Mobile, America's First Nationwide 4G Network


-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: [furries-290] Apology for Being Overly Harsh on Kayfox
From: dennisthetiger <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
CC:


Guess it couldn't hurt to throw my two cents in.

We do, indeed, have sort of a "cliquish" nature, but that tends to be the nature of any social group - a group will form, and those who get along OK tend to form subgroups.  In a perfect world this wouldn't happen, and the dischord between such subgroups especially so, but it is what it is.

As for a *leader*, as was pointed out, we don't really *have* a leader as such.  In fact, I'm not sure any area fandom group can really *have* somebody who can be defined as a leader - if anything, you have your greymuzzles (or elders), your social houses, and anyone else.  

At least, this is from my observation - AMMV. I'm no real authority at the end of the day. =^_^=

-Dennis
(A tiger)




On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 8:25 PM, Waylon Darosh <[address removed]> wrote:

Okay I will restructure my comment as apparently I was being too oblique with my commentary that some of the subtlety fell off due to text compressions:

So short version:  Yes we have cliques but they are not nearly as bad as others are.  Even groups that normally don't get along are at least somewhat able to interact in a larger setting.

Things are not nearly as "cliquish" as some local groups.

On Aug 27,[masked]:17 PM, "F3nix Wolf" <[address removed]> wrote:
well it kinda does....for the most part people have their own groups and thats kinda how it is o.O

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 8:14 PM, Waylon Darosh <[address removed]> wrote:
On Aug 27,[masked]:13 PM, "Waylon Darosh" <[address removed]> wrote:

I do but there are negative social contexts with that word so I try to avoid it as it does not work well in this region.

On Aug 27,[masked]:08 PM, "SamEd" <[address removed]> wrote:
Oh, wow you guys don't know what a Clique is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clique_(graph_theory) 


Subject: Re: [furries-290] Apology for Being Overly Harsh on Kayfox
From: [address removed]
To: [address removed]
Date: Mon, 27 Aug[masked]:06:26 -0400

I'm just gonna leave this here
http://tinyurl.com/Clique-Definition

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 8:03 PM, Waylon Darosh <[address removed]> wrote:
Not cliques really we just have different small groups with different standards and life stages
On Aug 27,[masked]:13 PM, "sudz" <[address removed]> wrote:

 truth about not having any real leade but it's true the Seattle community is really clickey.

Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G


Syberwolf <[address removed]> wrote:


Hey Alex thank you for the apology but I have a curious fact / question you keep asking  about the leader of the furry community up here, in the furry community there is really no leader per say because we all have different views and ideas and clicks some good some bad and some in between , in all honesty we are all our own leaders and followers.

Just a curious thought and opinion is all, but in all I hope you do find Seattle to be worth you while and risk, life is full of risk the thing is weather you take them or not is a risk in its self ,all in all your never going to know what you might be missing ;p  but don't take my word for it.

Hope all goes well for you.

~Syberwolf

On Aug 27,[masked]:31 PM, "Alex Maurin" <[address removed]> wrote:
Short Version:

I wanted to apologize for my previous email, something
an operator of an IRC channel I liked struck me as unjust, and it
caused me to question the quality of the leadership of the Seattle
furry community. I flashed with crystal cold anger, and pressed "send"
before I really should have.


Long Version:

Someone informed me in PM that he took some umbrage at my
public rebuke of Kayfox publicly via the FurLife Meetup Mailing List.

I just wanted to apologize for speaking out of anger without
thinking about it first.

I should have taken my objections to the higher staff of the existing
community leadership in private rather than publicly rebuking kayfox
where the impression of the entire leadership of the seattle furdom
would be questioned.

i apologize for my misbehavior in that respect, as that was uncalled
for.

After sending the previous email to the FurLife Meetup Mailing List, I
realized I sent the message in cold anger, and was not thinking about
the possibility that Kayfox's actions did not represent existing
conventions as a whole, and did not consider the fact that the IRC
channel #seattlefurs does not represent the staff of existing
conventions and furmeets within Seattle, and I admit I was mistaken in
this regard.

That said, my first impression with the existing leadership within
Seattle has not all been fluff and hugs, and I hope that the impression
that the #seattlefurs channel operator staff give to people who are
evaluating Seattle as a possible city to move to will realize that they
do the Seattle furry community no favors by giving the impression that
all Seattle Furs are trollish and unfriendly.

Now that I have calmed down, and thought about it, I don't really wish
to completely replace the existing staff of existing conventions
within Seattle, and thereby make them irrelevant. It turns out many of
the staff of existing conventions and furmeets within Seattle are
actually really nice people, and not at all like what i encountered in
#seattlefurs on FurNet

I really appreciate that, and wish to work with the existing staff of
existing conventions and furmeets in the future.

I also wish to apologize to Kayfox for rebuking him on this
mailing list before really thinking about it.

I AM new to the Seattle Furdom, and there is much I do not know about
the local culture here.

I wish to apologize to Jat, Pi, _habnorbit, and mr_otter for my
unseemly behavior. I should not have contributed to the negative
conversations and behaviors of that IRC channel.

Staff members of existing conventions and furmeets within Seattle have
individually indicated over skype that they would be willing to work
with any capable future staff to make existing conventions and furmeets
better places for everyone, and I fully agree that that is the best
approach to take.

I apologize for speaking out of anger, as Saph and Kayfox say, maybe I
should not take IRC so seriously.



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