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Re: [furries-290] Apology for Being Overly Harsh on Kayfox

From: Blaidd G.
Sent on: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 11:26 AM
I hope you remember, this country was founded by a group of people who were dissatisfied with the leadership of where they were living, so they moved and created a new home, with the help and blessing of the people that were living there at the time. It was the people that came AFTER them, after the country was already founded, that shoved west and stole the land from its rightful inhabitants, as you point out. So in fact, the idea of creating a new place to live, away from the people that have persecuted you and your kind just for existing, is not in and of itself bad. It has happened before, and it will happen again. Doing so will not by itself cause the downfall of mankind. I can think of a lot of other things that would be more likely to, starting with general greed, and feeling superior to other people who are really your equal. For example, the banking system that intentionally sold houses they knew the person buying them couldn't afford, so they could make a few extra bucks. 

T-Mobile, America's First Nationwide 4G Network

-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: [furries-290] Apology for Being Overly Harsh on Kayfox
From: Kay Fox <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]


I feel obligated to respond to this post. While this is written to be directed at an individual, it is intended for the consumption of the community and I would appreciate if it is widely read and taken to heart. Also note this was written largely without editing and completely from scratch, and may contain errors.

Many people who have actually met me know Im not an asshole, some people who Ive met at RainFurrest think Im an asshole, but y'all really need to realize Im trying to save you from yourselves (and consequently the hotel and cops). I spend large amounts of time every day--especially now that RainFurrest is a month away--working on ways to make this con, and others where I can, better for furries, sci-fi geeks, bronies, et cetera. While I understand how it can come about, I dont appreciate the attitude some people have towards me and others trying to achieve this goal.  

I am in #seattlefurs to try and bring order to chaos, all IRC is chaos, and #seattlefurs is one of the lesser chaotic channels I am in. Its hard to talk about furry IRC without some greater context, IRC is one of the last vestiages of the wild west of the internet, some networks are so ridden with scum and villiany that you dont dare go there without a very cryptic mask and all identifying info stripped. In all of this mess there are two furry IRC networks with significant popularity, one is Anthrochat, which keeps their hands off, the other is FurNet, which says they keep their hands off, but often get involved in channel drama. In being on that network furries have grown accustomed to their interests catered to and their social issues minimized.

When all of this comes together this means we have all sorts of people, and the ops have to figure out how to make them play nice together while also trying to play the local politics. We are largely not there to play favorites or help you win an argument, we are there to keep the noise from going bad and violent. Sometimes this means we will have to do things to get your attention, kicking you out of the channel is a very effective, and in the long term non-impacting way of dealing with this problem. It serves as a wakeup call, letting you know that there are people who can make you go away and you should listen to them. This is like catholic school, the ruler may hurt, but it does not break you.

Over your short time in the channel I noticed things you said that disturbed me, mainly that you seemed to want to seek out a major based on how much you could make. This appeared corrected by the people in the channel that know alot more about these things than you and I. I also noticed this prevalent attitude that we need furry things for furryness sake. I find this to be the reason for the eventual downfall of the furry fandom. I have seen alot of efforts along these lines that while good intentioned, were merely repeating work otherwise already done, and thusly wasted. The waste of effort, especially the immense amount in todays society, is repugnant to me.  

There is this term, "Standing on the shoulders of giants." When society chooses to build on its earlier gains, the efficiency of innovation is at its peak. This is how we made it to the Moon, and why science builds on a body of knowledge rather than trying to duplicate everything again. We saw great strides in innovation during Wold War Two as the government enforced the goal of moving forward at all costs, the playing field was level and if you didn't make enough guns or jeeps the government would tell you to let others make them as well. As we move forward in the 21st century we as a society are more and more duplicating efforts as corporate interests become entrenched and wall off all access to innovation. While patents of the 19th century described how to make and operate all manner of machinery in intimate detail, the patents of the 21st century are an exercise in trying to grab as many claims as possible while describing the invention in the vaguest terms allowed. This breakdown in the pace of innovation will likely lead to the downfall of the society of man.

In your talk about what you want to do, you proposed that furries should have their own city and you wanted to build it. While on the face it looks like something good, it is not. This is duplication of effort that would be better put towards improving the existing community and not towards raping the land we stole from those who came before us to build a city for those who should learn to step out into the larger community around them. We have existing cities that each have a unique soul, build upon and over again for ages, some displaying some of the largest feats of civil engineering ever accomplished. We should embrace those and build our community into them.

While this may have passed unnoticed by most, your conduct later on was unbecoming someone who would want to be a community leader. You indicated you want to come here, to our home, and divide this community up even more. I will have none of that. Leading the community should be about bringing people together, not about moving them apart.

I also noted you omitted some context from your snippet of logs, I have included relevant backlog to show you and everyone else here why you were kicked and I hope you can learn from this:
Aug 27 12:47:55 <coyo> PandaParty_: well, let me put it this way: once i move to seattle, i'm starting a new irc channel
Aug 27 12:47:55 <LonelyHusky> yea
Aug 27 12:48:02 <coyo> and almost none of you are invited.
Aug 27 12:48:38 <mr_otter> coyo why are you telling us this do you realistically think any of us caer
Aug 27 12:50:14 <_habnorbit> hey coyo have you heard about the myriad of failed channels which tried to replace #seattlefurs
Aug 27 12:50:17 <Llewelyn> How VERY Seattle. The only way they socialize is to join clubs. You don't like any of the clubs so you make your own and join it. It's as if you've lived here your whole life coyo.
Aug 27 12:50:19 <_habnorbit> nobody uses them
Aug 27 12:50:29 <coyo> _habnorbit: i have heard of them.
Aug 27 12:50:34 <coyo> but this is because no one uses irc.
Aug 27 12:50:52 <PandaParty_> Everyone who cares about Seattle IRC is already here
Aug 27 12:51:30 <LonelyHusky> i have never seen all 48 ppl active at the same time
Aug 27 12:51:33 <coyo> LonelyHusky: so, is there a mailing list i should sign up for? i'm done with this channel.
Aug 27 12:51:37 <_habnorbit> hahaha
Aug 27 12:51:42 <_habnorbit> coyo goddamn song
Aug 27 12:51:43 <_habnorbit> -g
Aug 27 12:51:55 * kayfox has kicked coyo from #seattlefurs (if your done with the channel get out and stop trying to stir drama )

I have taken alot of flak for allowing a small contingent of hackers in #seattlefurs, but I feel these people bring a little slice of the reality outside the sheltered world of the furry community. And the only way we are going to be anything but some small bastard child sliver of the sci-fi/fantasy community is if we learn to mesh with the rest of society and not act like out stereotypes. I also am annoyed at the larger problem of people who think they know everything about something. Once you have learned enough about a subject you learn how much you do not know, if you think you know everything, you are wrong. Finding the limits of your knowledge and expanding them is an intrigal part of achieving success and part of the hacker ethic.

You are welcome to come back to #seattlefurs, but you are what you bring to the community and we will judge you by your actions and legacy.

Govern yourself accordingly.

Kyle Fox

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