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Re: [ruby-110] Programmer needed for exciting new Nashville Startup

From: Brian
Sent on: Thursday, June 21, 2012 2:50 PM
Mr. Nelson, I apologize for being a little heavy handed, and perhaps a little mean-spirited. To sum up your approach, however, it comes across as very demeaning to engineers who earn their keep by the time they put into building a product. It's also quite unethical to make dubious claims about shares "growing," when, in many cases, those shares may never become worth more than the paper they are printed on.

I think others have done a great job pointing out the various other problems with Mr. Nelson's approach. I will optimistically hope that others looking for developer co-founders will take the advice into consideration.

I respect Josh's wish to keep the list welcoming to everyone, and will attempt to censure my attempts at re-education so they are more constructive and less critical. 

-b.

--
realm3 web applications, LLC / realm3.com
p:[masked]
f:[masked]


On Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Josh Crews wrote:

> Thank you Travis.
> 
> I specifically invited Benjamin to take his post which I saw hit the discussion board, and send it out on the mailing list. Even his post turns out to be insincere (and I don't think it is); it's easy to imagine someone sincerely posting exactly his post in the future.
> 
> Directing rants and frustrations at a new comer looking for help with a Rails project strikes fear into the startup community that people shouldn't share their development needs because they'll get laughed at.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with seeing if someone local wants to do Rails development for equity on a startup and asking for an NDA.
> 
> I'm not interested in that offer, many of you aren't interested in that offer. But he might find a developer that he begins a dialog with that make a match with. He discover that Rails is really good for his idea, and he needs to learn to code. He might refine his idea, his business plan, improve his funding and want to work with a good developer who helped him early on.
> 
> This list should be a safe place for non-developers looking for someone
> 
> a) in Nashville
> b) who does Ruby on Rails
> 
> I feel the same way about job posts by recruiters. If its a) in Nashville, b) for Ruby on Rails its welcome on this list.
> 
> Passionate discussions like the one Brian started are welcome too. Please just start a new thread that doesn't mention a specific recent post.
> 
> Josh
> 
> On Jun 21, 2012, at 11:11 AM, Travis Roberts wrote:
> > I wanted to take a moment to remind everyone that, while it's fine to think the job posting was pretty ridiculous, it's not really a great idea to be a jerk about it.
> > 
> > Remember the golden rule. How would you like to have an entire thread making fun of you just because you didn't know the etiquette for a group of people you're probably not that familiar with. 
> > 
> > --
> > Travis Roberts
> > 
> > 
> > On Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Alex Caudill wrote:
> > 
> > > I have no idea what you guys are complaining about. This is one of the
> > > best project descriptions I've ever read. Based solely on that post, I
> > > now have the knowledge necessary to build a multilateral high-powered
> > > thinking machine sufficient to catalyze the singularity.
> > > 
> > > I want on board, right now.
> > > 
> > > I'm willing to work for free indefinitely as long as you're willing to
> > > feed me and provide me a steady supply of marijuana and a place to
> > > work and sleep. You must make no stipulations with regard to the
> > > management of my personal space, nor touch any of my stuff when I'm
> > > not looking. It may seem messy to you, but it is, in fact, a fully
> > > realized method of organization contingent upon a level of spatial
> > > awareness that you almost certainly do not possess.
> > > 
> > > In any case: if my stuff is touched, I will know. Trust me on this.
> > > 
> > > Furthermore, I require that you bring someone on board to choose my
> > > outfits for me and array them on my designated bedding area each
> > > morning while I shower. This is a routine to which I have become
> > > accustomed and deviation from it would incur a harsh penalty in terms
> > > of productivity and morale. At first glance, this requirement might
> > > seem contradictory to my first stipulation (viz. do not touch my
> > > stuff) but I believe that a willingness to tread this fine line is
> > > what distinguishes a mediocre employer from a great one.
> > > 
> > > I must also insist that during the course of normal business hours you
> > > avoid eye contact with me, as I find it uncomfortable and distracting.
> > > If you must address me, you must do so via e-mail or instant
> > > messenger. If I don't respond immediately it's because I'm busy
> > > distilling your business process into a series of axioms which can be
> > > integrated in multiple dimensions according to customer needs and
> > > seismic activity in the Pacific Rim.
> > > 
> > > In terms of my dietary needs I'm fairly easy to satisfy, but I eat
> > > around 6,000 calories per day to stay in fighting shape. I maintain a
> > > protective layer of karate fat around my midriff to prevent my
> > > internal organs from sustaining damage if I'm ever in a combat
> > > situation. My one hard and fast rule is that you must not purchase,
> > > cook, or attempt to serve eggs in my presence. I find embryonic birds
> > > to be untrustworthy, rude, and disgusting and exposure to such will
> > > send me into a fit of rage and quite possibly a fugue state. You have
> > > been warned.
> > > 
> > > Get in touch and let's arrange a play-date.
> > > 
> > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Levi Kennedy <[address removed] (mailto:[address removed])> wrote:
> > > > I think most of us subscribe to this guys view point on signing NDAs.
> > > > 
> > > > http://blog.jpl-c...­
> > > > 
> > > > The whole signing an NDA thing is what turned me off the most.
> > > > 
> > > > On Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 10:10 AM, Andrew McElroy wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Brian <[address removed] (mailto:[address removed])> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I don't mean to come off as a smart ###
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Whereas, I, on the other hand, am quite intent on being a smart ###. :)
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > the sharpest thing on earth can be one's own tongue :P
> > > > 
> > > > You never know what permutation of people/events/places­ will occur.
> > > > 
> > > > There is enough buzz words going on in this pitch that I suspect there
> > > > is venture capital afoot.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -b.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > BTW, tonight is the rails meet up night. I'd love you see you all drop by.
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > 
> > > > Respectfully,
> > > > Andrew McElroy
> > > > 
> > > > We are
> > > > 
> > > > looking for ambitious self-starting developers who can take on the project
> > > > in the early stages. We have documented the epics and user stories and are
> > > > prepared to begin iteration 1 of development. As compensation you will
> > > > receive shares of the company with the option to cash in your shares at any
> > > > time after we are funded or you can hang on to your shares and watch them
> > > > grow.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Once we have a signed non-disclosure agreement we can give you a complete
> > > > picture of the project. Our founders have successfully started, IPO'd, and
> > > > sold numerous companies in the last 20+ years and they feel this project has
> > > > more potential than previous successes.
> > > > 
> > > > Please contact me with any questions along with your contact information.
> > > > 
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > 
> > > > Ben Nelson
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
> > > > this mailing list ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed]) (mailto:[address removed]))
> > > > This message was sent by Benjamin Nelson ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed])
> > > > (mailto:[address removed]))
> > > > from The Nashville Ruby on Rails Meetup Group.
> > > > To learn more about Benjamin Nelson, visit his/her member profile
> > > > Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email |
> > > > Don't send me mailing list messages
> > > > 
> > > > Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] |
> > > > [address removed] (mailto:[address removed]) (mailto:[address removed])
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
> > > > this mailing list ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed]) (mailto:[address removed]))
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > This message was sent by Andrew McElroy ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed])
> > > > (mailto:[address removed])) from The Nashville Ruby on Rails Meetup Group.
> > > > To learn more about Andrew McElroy, visit his/her member profile:
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > Set my mailing list to email me
> > > > 
> > > > As they are sent
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > 
> > > > In one daily email
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > 
> > > > Don't send me mailing list messages
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] |
> > > > [address removed] (mailto:[address removed]) (mailto:[address removed])
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
> > > > this mailing list ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed]))
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > This message was sent by Brian ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed])) from The Nashville Ruby on
> > > > Rails Meetup Group.
> > > > To learn more about Brian, visit his/her member profile:
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > Set my mailing list to email me
> > > > 
> > > > As they are sent
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > 
> > > > In one daily email
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > 
> > > > Don't send me mailing list messages
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] |
> > > > [address removed] (mailto:[address removed])
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
> > > > this mailing list ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed]))
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > This message was sent by Andrew McElroy ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed])) from The
> > > > Nashville Ruby on Rails Meetup Group.
> > > > To learn more about Andrew McElroy, visit his/her member profile:
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > Set my mailing list to email me
> > > > 
> > > > As they are sent
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > 
> > > > In one daily email
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > 
> > > > Don't send me mailing list messages
> > > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > > Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] |
> > > > [address removed] (mailto:[address removed])
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
> > > > this mailing list ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed]))
> > > > This message was sent by Levi Kennedy ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed])) from The
> > > > Nashville Ruby on Rails Meetup Group.
> > > > To learn more about Levi Kennedy, visit his/her member profile
> > > > 
> > > > Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email |
> > > > Don't send me mailing list messages
> > > > 
> > > > Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] |
> > > > [address removed] (mailto:[address removed])
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed]))
> > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > This message was sent by Alex Caudill ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed])) from The Nashville Ruby on Rails Meetup Group.
> > > To learn more about Alex Caudill, visit his/her member profile: http://www.meetup...­
> > > Set my mailing list to email me
> > > 
> > > As they are sent
> > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > 
> > > In one daily email
> > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > 
> > > Don't send me mailing list messages
> > > http://www.meetup...­
> > > Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed] (mailto:[address removed])
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed]))
> > This message was sent by Travis Roberts ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed])) from The Nashville Ruby on Rails Meetup Group (http://www.meetup...­).
> > To learn more about Travis Roberts, visit his/her member profile (http://www.meetup...­)
> > Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent (http://www.meetup...­) | In one daily email (http://www.meetup...­) | Don't send me mailing list messages (http://www.meetup...­) 
> > 
> > Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed] (mailto:[address removed]) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed]))
> This message was sent by Josh Crews ([address removed] (mailto:[address removed])) from The Nashville Ruby on Rails Meetup Group (http://www.meetup...­).
> To learn more about Josh Crews, visit his/her member profile (http://www.meetup...­)
> Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent (http://www.meetup...­) | In one daily email (http://www.meetup...­) | Don't send me mailing list messages (http://www.meetup...­) 
> 
> Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed] (mailto:[address removed]) 


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