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RE: [newtech-1] TriggerSmart child proof RFID smart guns

From: Dean C.
Sent on: Saturday, January 5, 2013 9:19 PM
Rob,

So make it optional then....quit tying to go down the legal enforcement route....thats what raised my hackles in the first place about your approach (and I suspect you'll get the same from a lot of owners).

The market for people who wants belts and. Braces is enough. Allowing someone to turn off my trigger wirelessly....f that!  

Cheers,
Dean


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert McNamara [[address removed]]
Received: Saturday, 05 Jan 2013, 8:37pm
To: [address removed] [[address removed]]
Subject: RE: [newtech-1] TriggerSmart child proof RFID smart guns


Chris, I agree with having a gun in the home for protection of family and property against an intruder in the home. The only difference is you say you don't trust technology in case it would let you down in an emergency. That's why we have to test the technology when integrated with a gun and prove that the technology passes the test as is reliable as a gun is. Don't forget that guns malfunction too and as you say the sound of a gun being loaded is enough to scare most people. I am trying to reduce the amount of accidental discharges with children that accidentally discharge guns. Sounds like your dog was the main deterrent and scared off the thief. Another safety scenario is if the intruder(s) had overpowered you and taken your gun then they would not be able to use your gun against you.
The WAC would use AES 256 encryption which is internet banking standard double wrap encryption so not as easy to hack for the average Adam Lanza as you suggest.
Macho gun guys like you don't need safety coz your too tough for that but when you fill the spare rooms with kids you may want to make your guns childproof for your own kids and when their pals come for a play date.
Not for everyone I guess but why not have the choice and explore the benefits.
Stay safe. Rob

From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Chris Ferreira
Sent: Saturday, January 05,[masked]:11 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [newtech-1] TriggerSmart child proof RFID smart guns

I think until you have had a home invasion and an intruder wake you up while your wife/girlfriend/etc and child/etc are sleeping, you should probably shut up.


I live in a nice, very safe suburban neighborhood in a large 5 bedroom home. Weeks after Sandy an opportunist burglar broke into my home around 11:30 PM on a Sunday night. I was about ready to fall asleep and my dog alerted me to something in the home. A certain kind of bark I seldom hear towards the interior bedroom door. At first I thought it was nothing, but he does not just bark at this particular door for nothing. Leaving my girlfriend sleeping in bed, I left the bedroom with firearm at the ready and with the now silent dog as if he knew already, we began to clear the rest of the empty house. First the second downstairs master bedroom, then we hear light noises upstairs. My dog is just a puppy, but he acted as if he had been trained his whole life for this. We proceeded upstairs and I chambered a round because now by this point I suspect there may be real danger. Hearing the round being chambered and me coming up the stairs as silently as I could, I'm assuming the intruder exited. We reached the top of the stairs still not knowing what lied ahead or what at all if anything or anyone was in the house. As soon as I opened the door, I noticed things out of places ad drawers an cabinets ransacked. The dog proceeded to quietly check nearby bedrooms. Venturing a little further upstairs to check the front door, I noticed a window wide open.


Now knowing for sure that someone could be in the house or possibly still was, I went back downstairs with the dog. I woke my girlfriend and locked her in the bedroom bathroom along with our puppy. When I say puppy, yes he's less than a year old, but he's over 60 Lbs already. I proceeded to call 911 because by this point my girlfriend was frozen with fear and half asleep at the same time. She could barely put the words together to make the call herself. With her safe in the bathroom I contemplated if I should wait with her there or continue to keep watch at least on the downstairs before the police arrived. I decided that she was safe enough in the bathroom and hidden and that if anyone came downstairs or into our bedroom, they would have to go through me first.


After about 2 minutes the police started to roll up silently on the house. I met them outside through the garage before they arrived. They proceeded to clear the rest of the house and the large backyard because the house sits on a double lot and has a fairly large garden house. They would not let me reenter yet, but I repeatedly asked them to get my girlfriend out first.


My conclusions are that had our brave little puppy not alerted me or if I had fallen asleep, he awakened me, the intruder would have still been in the house while we slept. Who knows if they were armed or not, the police never caught them. And had I not been prepared with my firearm and the intruder heard the slide and a round being chambered they may not have fled. Should another intruder been in the house, armed, and attacked me, I would have been prepared. In firearms preparedness training, they say that what scared off intruders most is the sound of a shotgun being loaded.


I was brought up around guns growing up as a kid in Florida. My dad was a former president of the NY Gun Club and taught us to respect guns growing up. He began to teach me to shoot and everything there was to know about gun safety when I about 4 or 5. Growing up there were a number of loaded firearms in the house at all times. My father did not want us to fear them or be curious about them. He told us where each one was kept and he wanted us to know how to use them should we ever need to. Not once as a kid did I ever care to show off to my friends after school and do something stupid like pull one out and play with it. If I ever wanted to go to the range and shoot, my dad would take me. We'd have an awesome time and a great time bonding as father and son.


I'm sorry Mr. McNamara, but I will never in my life consent to having any impediment or mechanism on my firearm that prevents it from functioning.


While the massacre at Sandy Hook is a tragedy and I am deeply saddened by it, interfering with law abiding gun owners is not the answer in my opinion. What if there had been 2 shooters at Sandy Hook and someone had managed to disarm 1 of them and needed to use that weapon to defend themselves or others? In the end, what you can pickup at a local pool store could have caused just as much devastation. I GUARANTEE you that your Wide Area System can be hacked and most likely with some simple gun smithing a firearm with your system could be made to function without its RFID key.




Thanks,


-Chris

___________________
Mobile Reply

On Dec 31, 2012, at 1:18 PM, Ruijie <[address removed]<mailto:[­address removed]>> wrote:
what I say is people should stop thinking they need to have a gun around.
That will eliminate millions of guns and you don't have to have such a trigger smart technology. If with millions of guns around, you have 10000 kill every year, how about you take away all those millions of guns? Then probably will be less then 100 kills a year.

Technology is not the key here, the total gun number is. It's the biggest issue here. You have to see which gives you a bigger impact.

On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Robert McNamara <[address removed]<mailto:[­address removed]>> wrote:
Guns also malfunction and there is an accepted rate of malfunction of less
than
20 malfunctions in 10,000 rounds. so if what you are saying is that you
don't
test technology then you would equally not trust guns or other mechanical
things.
btw how are you getting on with your mechanical phone and computer?

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Ruijie [address removed]<mailto:[­address removed]>
Date: Mon, 31 Dec[masked]:04:36 -0500
To: [address removed]<mailto:[­address removed]>
Subject: Re: [newtech-1] TriggerSmart child proof RFID smart guns


new tech can reduce the percentage of kills with legal guns, As you
claimed, McNamara. However, every percentage has a base number. If you
really change the law and mentality of people, stop them thinking they have
to have a gun, that will greatly reduce the base number, the total
incidents probably will gone a great proportion. That's the big picture. No
matter how advance your technology is, there is always the gun. Technology
goes wrong, especially in critical times. That's happening all the time.
Your laptop goes off when you need to to presentation. Your broadcast goes
bad when there's a big event. Technology is not the savior of human life,
Our Own Thoughts, Our Own Mentality is.


On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Robert McNamara
<[address removed]<mailto:[­address removed]>>wrot­e:

> Jesse,
> locks and keys already exist, TriggerSmart is more sophisticated and
> provides
> instant access in an emergency situation to the authorized user such as a
> Law
> enforcement officer in the line of duty but is harmless in the hands of a
> child,
> an intruder in the home.
> Rob
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Jesse Ash [address removed]<mailto:[­address removed]>
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec[masked]:32:40 -0500
> To: [address removed]<mailto:[­address removed]>
> Subject: Re: [newtech-1] TriggerSmart child proof RFID smart guns
>
>
> How about just a simple lock and key- for the trigger of the gun???
>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Laird Popkin <[address removed]<mailto:[­address removed]>>
> wrote:
> > There have been mass shootings where many trained, armed people were
> > present. That didn't prevent people from getting killed. Assault
> > weapons with 100+ bullet clips and body armor, all accessible
> > mail-order, make it impossible to stop mass killings.
> >
> > Note that societies under real security threat (e.g. Israel) have
> > strict gun control laws - letting random untrained people have assault
> > rifles, etc., is terrible for actual, as opposed to imaginary,
> > security. There's a reason we have. 20x the gun homicide rate of the
> > rest of the wealthy countries, and 40x the gun homicide rate of
> > countries (e.g. the UK) that take gun control most seriously. And if
> > you ignore the rest of the world, within the US, states that have lax
> > gun control laws have 10-12x the gun homicide rate of states that have
> > relatively strong gun control laws.
> >
> > - Laird Popkin
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone. Apologies in advance for typo's.
> >
> > On Dec 31, 2012, at 8:39 AM, Baba <[address removed]<mailto:[­address removed]>> wrote:
> >
> >> I find that the notion that somehow we can have a technology solution
> >> to many of societies problems seems a wishful thinking on our part.
> >> For the many who are against making gun ownership difficult or better
> >> managed through a amalgam of laws and on going testing for the owners
> >> is a progressive but justifiable solution going forward.
> >> For many who harp on the constitutional rights and other right to bear
> >> arms etc a quote from Martin Luther King Jr. comes to mind,  "It may
> >> be true that the law cannot make a man love me but it can keep him
> >> from lynching me and I think that is pretty important."
> >> Those who feel gun laws are not going to stop gun related violence
> >> etc, it sure can help slow down the carnage.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Baba
> >>
> >> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Robert McNamara
> >> <[address removed]<mailto:[­address removed]>> wrote:
> >>> Ryan,
> >>> This is a large group with teachers and many of the members must also
> be
> >>> parents. I bet a poll of the parents here would overwhelmingly be
> against
> >>> their
> >>> kids being taught by teachers carrying guns in the classroom. It would
> be
> >>> like
> >>> educating kids in a prison atmosphere and this is not the right
message
> for
> >>> kids.
> >>> We all went to school and can remember the teachers were mostly very
> good
> >>> but
> >>> teachers can have a bad day too and I don't want my child in that
> >>> classroom.
> >>>
> >>> Original Message:
> >>> -----------------
> >>> From: Ryan Aviles [address removed]<mailto:[­address removed]>
> >>> Date: Mon, 31 Dec[masked]:56:14 -0500
> >>> To: [address removed]<mailto:[­address removed]>
> >>> Subject: Re: [newtech-1] TriggerSmart child proof RFID smart guns
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> For one, I think if you did a national poll of teachers the vast
> majority
> >>> of them would NOT choose to carry a gun into the classroom nor would
> they
> >>> want armed guards on the premises.  To Ruiije's point, statistics show
> that
> >>> increased prevalence of guns in the homes leads to increase in
shooting
> >>> accidents.  I suspect we'll see an even greater rise in accidents this
> year
> >>> than in years past.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Ruijie <[address removed]<mailto:[­address removed]>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> That's the right question. And also to those people who flocked to
buy
> >>>> guns, they should really think again, if it really helps. Are they
> there
> >>>> with the gun 24 hours a day? Can a gun really protect their family?
> >>>> It's not like you are in the battle field, and you can see your
enemy.
> >>>> Technology, gun ownership, they can only solve superficial problems.
> The
> >>>> root is still left unchanged. It's started with what the society
think
> ,
> >>>> government do, and what the gun-makers do.
> >>>> Make the right rules, laws and educate people.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 1:20 AM, Ryan Aviles
> <[address removed]<mailto:[­address removed]>>wrot­e:
> >>>>
> >>>>>­ Mr. McNamara, do you think we should arm every teacher and principal
> in
> >>>>>­ America with a gun as long as its equipped with your tech?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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