Next Meetup

How Painful will Reducing Our Carbon Footprint Be?
I really am skeptical of the claim by most environmentalists that curbing carbon emissions will be relatively painless. Some seem to fall prey to a Keynesian fallacy that the biggest shortage the economy suffers from is one of jobs. They do realize that a large amount of work will be involved in transitioning off of fossil fuels, so they think that doing all that work will employ our unemployed people and stimulate the economy. But most of our unemployed people are either low-skilled or in possession of obsolete skills; many of them are too old to take well to retraining (if they were ever book-smart in the first place); and many of them live in high-unemployment areas and are disinclined to relocate. By and large, these are *NOT* the people who will do the work involved in an energy transition -- the needed workers will have to be diverted from other wealth-creating activities. We will need to consume less energy, and change our habits. Many environmentalists are very enthusiastic about reducing their ecological footprint, but it's THEIR HOBBY! To most people, making sacrifices to one's lifestyle is not a lot of fun. Americans consume a lot of air travel. Many of us have family and friends spread all over the country, and most immigrants have networks spanning much larger distances. The technology needed to be able to travel across the country quickly, or to other continents, without combusting large amounts of hydrocarbons is still a long way off. People will have to get used to hardly ever seeing their loved ones except through Skype, and they're not going to like it. It will be quite awhile before electric cars really deliver the same performance, for the same price, as gasoline-powered cars. Also, when we change cars and trucks to getting all their energy from the electrical grid, this will involve greatly beefing up the grid, digging up subdivisions to lay more cable. The bottom line is, if the public really is going to curb carbon emissions, they are going to have to accept a standard of living that is significantly reduced in some aspects. The environmental left has been doing a poor job of preparing the public for those sacrifices. Free pizza will be served. The location will be chosen once we have some idea how many people will be showing up. It will be somewhere in midtown or downtown Manhattan.

WeWork E. 57th St.

135 East 57th Street · New York


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What we're about

We are a pro-human, pro-technology, market-friendly environmental group.

The purpose of this meetup group is to investigate the science, engineering, and economics of climate change and its solutions.

There will be *NO* talk of polar bears, whales, or baby seals.

We take what Al Gore says with a grain of salt. He's a politician with a law degree, not a scientist.

We will devote considerable time to the debate over whether climate change is even happening, and whether it will be enough of a problem to justify action. Climate skeptics are very welcome to attend, but they should be note that people who just come to disrupt, or who are rude, or shout and interrupt a lot, will not be tolerated.

We will be particularly interested in focusing on market-friendly solutions, particularly a Carbon Fee & Dividend (

We do not believe the problem can be addressed without bipartisan support, so a key goal of this group is to reach out to conservatives. Why Bipartisanship? (

Why should conservatives want to get involved in solving climate change? (

Nuclear energy will be discussed, pro and con, though we are skeptical that climate change can be adequately addressed without it.

Geoengineering will be discussed.

For terminology, we will be calling the people who want action on climate change (which includes the organizer of this meetup) "climate activists".

The people on the other side we call "climate skeptics". By "climate skeptic", we're including not only people who don't believe that the planet is warming and that it's human-caused (such people are becoming pretty rare), but also people who believe that warming is occurring, and that human activity is the cause, but no action of any kind is warranted.

Some people feel that reducing society's emissions of greenhouse gases is a simple matter of buying solar panels and windmills. It's not that simple -- the transition of our energy sector is a difficult and fascinating problem, and we will be discussing the engineering and economics of alternative energy.

We won't be devoting effort to demonstrating or lobbying politicians, rather, we will be discussing and endorsing other groups and PAC's that are doing that.

Review our interesting links (

Pre-Event Discussion

Sometimes there will be pre-event discussion, as comments on the event page, or on the discussion board, about the topics. Rude comments will be deleted at the organizer's discretion, as will comments by people who won't be attending, especially if they are running down the topics.

Links to videos longer than 10 minutes will not be allowed on the pre-event discussion (the organizer will delete them). If you want to share a video, create a thread for it on the message boards (, mentioning why you think it is worth watching, and hopefully, how much time in to skip to for the part that you feel is relevant. The problem with people posting long videos is that they aren't skimmable, and often go on and on without getting to the point, and deter attendees from showing up because they don't have the patience to sit through them.

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