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RE: [skeptics-137] New Event: October Event

From: Stanley
Sent on: Monday, September 10, 2007 4:27 PM
No, this is not impossible. Just use the various religious texts as a template by debunking the impractical, the cruel, and the mytholigical contained therein. Religion is nothing more than the rules a society lives by. Sadly, even the myths affect the here and now more than they should.

Scott <[address removed]> wrote:
I guess I don?t quite understand the kind of religion you are referring to.  Alan Watts comes to mind, maybe this is wrong too.  As for seeking objective truth, I feel there is no more worthy activity in life.  That is my interest as well.  The question is how to find it?  The science we have today is great for physical explanations but fails miserably in the area of consciousness.  There is no mapping from physio-chemical lingo to states of mind lingo, though there have been some crude attempts.  What we are seeking then is an objective science where all is explained in one super-theory, not just the physical and the mental, but also mathematics, and logic.  Might this be impossible?
 

From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of sahyantis
Sent: Monday, September 10,[masked]:53 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: RE: [skeptics-137] New Event: October Event
 
Not exactly, pragmatic utilitarianism as I understand it, posits that the end justifies the means. I'm of the school of thought that seeks truth for its own sake, and let the dumbasses fall where they may. Not 'relative' truth, but things as they really are. (There is no God more worthy than Creation, and really, no God but.)

Scott <[address removed]> wrote:
Also?you seem to be sort of pragmatically utilitarian in regard to religion, as a system to maintain order rather than an ultimate belief system.  Is this the correct interpretation?  I think I agree with you on the capitalism devolution thing, where the dollar is god. 
 

From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Scott
Sent: Monday, September 10,[masked]:28 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: RE: [skeptics-137] New Event: October Event
 
Oh, I certainly understand this.  The point I was making is that we might not know the explanation.  Ultimately most of the empirical/analytical thinkers we know assume there is a logical explanation for everything, but very few of them actually could explain the phenomena themselves.  They take scientist?s reports on faith because most have not verified these explanations themselves or could explain the theory to themselves or anyone else.  If we admit for instance that chemical properties are the results of atomic phenomena described by the Schr?dinger equations, how many of our members could actually explain them to us? So they believe chemical and atomic phenomena have logical explanations but they themselves do not completely know them.  So there is faith here.  Shouldn?t we be skeptical about this faith, and their appeal to authority?

From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of sahyantis
Sent: Monday, September 10,[masked]:16 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: RE: [skeptics-137] New Event: October Event
 
I'm feeling you Scott, but I beg to differ just a little. To the empirical/analytical thinker, there is a logical, non-mystical explanation for every observable phenomenon. With my simple unsophisticated mind, I'd rather not venture into string theory and the metaphysical. I am not skeptic about the indispensability of religion for civilized homo sapiens, just about the forms, philosophies, and dogma of contemporary deism that is speedily becoming ever more irrelevant to more mentally evolved humans. There must be religion, a raison d' etre, or else there will be devolution, a phenomenon that is increasingly apparent among the materialistic, "my hobby is shopping", crowd. Even among those, they have a religion; Capitalism, their way of worship is obtaining money and spending it. ROY  SAHYANTIS. 

Scott <[address removed]> wrote:
Just in case you may have misunderstood...Mick was referring to his former
"delusions" in what he wrote below, he does not accept these kinds of things
now.

As for me, I wanted to challenge some of our member's beliefs just to see if
I could get at exactly why they believe what they do. I don't necessarily
believe some of the outrageous possibilities I propose, but like to do
thought experiments by using them and hoped to see some very logical
refutations of some of the things I have proposed.

You know many scientific principles seem pretty absurd without a lot of
prerequisite understanding. If I were to explain black holes and warped
space to my grandfather he probably would think I was nuts. Quantum theory
is based in probabilities and doesn't necessarily do away with some very
bizarre possibilities. Our science we have today would seem equivalent to
magic to people a few hundred years ago, let alone to people a few hundred
thousand years ago. To them we might appear as Gods. Merely striking a
match would be a profound act of magic. So if you were to encounter
scientifically lawful behavior on a level much beyond what we know now, it
seems likely it would seem magical to you. So I like to define magic as an
experience of lawful phenomena on a level beyond our understanding. If you
see something magical, there is likely a logical explanation for it, but if
you are far from knowing that explanation, what you experience is mystical.


-----Original Message-----
From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of
Brendan
Sent: Monday, September 10,[masked]:24 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [skeptics-137] New Event: October Event

Umm, people can walk through walls, those who see through "reality"
into another dimension of reality are "disappeared" by spooky
authorities, and science is religion?

Wow. I got onto the Art Bell mailing list and I didn't even know it!

I'm outta' here, folks. I've had to swallow enough of witchcraft,
Tarot, alternate universes, and chaos magic to last me a lifetime.

On 9/9/07, Mick <[address removed]>wrote:
> --- Scott <[address removed]>wrote:
> > Hypothetical question...If at sometime you had a
> > sequence of experiences
> > that were consistent, that did not agree with known
> > scientific principles,
> > would you question science in any way or would you
> > think you were deluded?
>
> What if there were no Hypothetical questions?
>
> Actually I have experienced, in meditation, what I
> felt to be absolute reality ... as opposed to relative
> reality (I am using terms that I used at that time ...
> somewhat Neo-Vedantin). I think this may be what you
> are talking about. Or at least similar states.
> Patanjali outlines these in the Yoga Sutras. I now
> see it as delusion. Perhaps it is something the brain
> does that perpetuates the religious experience.
>
> I spent most of my life following that school of
> thought (Advaita and yoga) and it did more harm than
> good. Perhaps mostly due to my obsession with it, but
> it seems obsession is very much a part of it. The
> feeling of "Oneness" is somewhat addictive.
>
> "Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to
make you commit injustices." Voltaire
>
>
>
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>


--
Brendan Howard
First practice LSAT (no studying before): 153



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Stanley Roy Palmer
 

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