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DFW Theology & Apologetics Meetup Message Board › Signs of The End of The World

Signs of The End of The World

A former member
Post #: 76
Signs of The End of the Age--Aion in Greek
(World in the Generic Sense)
A Change in Govt, Authority, & Power
The Heavens: Sun, Moon, & Stars
Hebrew Symbolism
According to SCRIPTURE

Joseph's Dream:
Genesis 37:8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
Did the sun, the moon, and the 11 stars literally bow in outer space to Joseph? No it's biblical imagery of Jacob’s (Israel’s) Govt, Authority, Power, etc. being subject to Egypt’s authority through Joseph who was 2nd in command behind Pharoah.

The Fall of Babylon:
Isaiah 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
10: For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
13: Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

The Fall of Egypt:
Ezekiel 32:2 Son of man, take up a lamentation for Pharaoh king of Egypt, and say unto him, Thou art like a young lion of the nations, and thou art as a whale in the seas: and thou camest forth with thy rivers, and troubledst the waters with thy feet, and fouledst their rivers.
3: Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will therefore spread out my net over thee with a company of many people; and they shall bring thee up in my net.
7: And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
8: All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD.

The Fall of Edom:
Isaiah 34:1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.
2: For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.
3: Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
4: And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
5: For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

Peter Declares Pentecost as The Change of Govt, Law to Grace:
Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

A former member
Post #: 113
Bump for Todd.

In order to understand the prophecies you need to look at the Hebrew Symbolism.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

God wasn't just creating planets and stars, He was showing Moses that these heavenly bodies represented His people and their authority, their govt, and and how they would rule.

Light, "Rules" over darkness, literally and symbolically.

Remember Joseph's dream?

And all the prophecies concerning heavenly bodies?

Prophetic Language = Hebrew Symbolism.

The "Last Days" was a 40 year period, 30AD to 70AD.

The destruction of the Temple was the consummation of the Age, "The End of The "World."

World = AGE. (Aion)

The Mosiac Age of keeping the Law, Christ fulfilled it but it didn't pass till the Temple was destroyed.

They had a 40 year "Grace Period."

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The temple and it's system was, "Decaying" but it hadn't, "Burned" up yet.

Essentially he was saying that it hadn't been destroyed yet...

Re-read the entire Chapter of Acts 2 and look at the Prophetic language of Joel's prophecy as told by Peter...
Todd H.
Group Organizer
Bedford, TX
Post #: 52
Here are some verses for consideration:

Acts 3:19-21
19 Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, 20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, 21 whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.

So you're saying that "the time for restoring all the things" is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD?

Acts 17:30-31
30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

You're saying that "the day" God has fixed "on which he will judge the world in righteousness" took place during the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD?

In 2 Peter chapter 3, Peter compares the coming of Jesus to the destruction of the earth by water (in Genesis).

2 Peter 3:5-7
5 For they (scoffers) deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. 7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

So the "day of judgment and the destruction of the ungodly" occurred in 70AD? Was Peter referring to figurative destruction of ungodly people here? If so, how were ungodly people figuratively destroyed in 70AD?

Let's look at what else Peter says...

2 Peter 3:10-13
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. 11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, 12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! 13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

So Peter says the following in this passage:
1. The Day of the Lord will come quickly and unexpectedly.

2. The heavens will pass away and the heavenly bodies will be burned up. (You claim this is figuratively referring to the judgment of God.)

3. We should live in a holy and godly way because we are expecting this judgment to come one day. According to you, this day has already happened, so the instructions in this passage would only apply to Christians living prior to 70AD, right?

4. At the time this was written, Christians were waiting for "new heavens and new earth in which righteousness dwells." You believe that we (and all who have lived after 70AD) are now living in a new heavens and new earth in which righteousness dwells. Please tell me how the righteousness after the resurrection of Jesus differs from the righteousness that came about after 70AD.

There's more from Peter in this chapter...

2 Peter 3:14
14 Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace.

So Jesus came back in 70AD and found the Christians living at that time to be "without spot or blemish"? Did Jesus find Christians all over the world in 70AD or only the Christians living in Jerusalem?

Here's what Paul says about the coming of the Lord to the Thessalonians...

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

So when Jesus came back in 70AD, there was a figurative "cry of command" and a figurative "voice of the archangel" and a figurative "trumpet of God" that sounded? The dead Christians rose figuratively? Were these Christians figuratively dead or literally dead? Are dead Christians still rising figuratively? Were the living Christians figuratively caught up in the clouds with the Lord? What about Christians who are currently living? Are they figuratively caught up in the clouds with the Lord too? Why wouldn't living Christians be figuratively caught up in the clouds before 70AD?

Look at the ascension of Jesus into heaven in Acts...

Acts 1:9-11
9 And when (Jesus) had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”

The two men in white robes told onlookers that Jesus "will come in the same way as you say him go into heaven." Did these people "figuratively" see Jesus ascend into heaven? How does anyone see something figuratively? If these people saw Jesus ascend into heaven physically, then isn't that what we should expect to see upon Jesus' return? If Jesus has already returned "figuratively" in 70AD, did everyone see him in 70AD? Are there any reports of anyone seeing Jesus come personally in 70AD? I'm not aware of any such reports.

Here is what Hebrews says about Jesus' coming...

Hebrews 9:27-28
27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

So Jesus "appeared a second time" in 70AD and "saved" those who were waiting for him in 70AD. Right?

Revelation 1:7
7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

So every eye will see him figuratively? Oh wait. Every eye in 70AD saw him figuratively, right? Was that every eye in Jerusalem in 70AD or every eye all over the world?

Please explain how you can reconcile these clear passages of scripture with the notion that all of these are figurative references to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. You have your work cut out for you in my opinion. Good luck.

Your humble disciple waiting to be led into all truth...

A former member
Post #: 114

Todd if you don't understand Prophetic Language in relation to Hebrew Symbolism then when you read the scriptures you will interpret them like a comic book as you just have...
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