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Re: [vegetarian-515] Saturday Meeting

From: user 1.
Sent on: Sunday, April 29, 2012 11:31 PM
It seems there is more compassion for the dog who is violent (and vitriol
Towards an owner of unknown character) than for a wounded child.  

Aren't we supposed to be compassionate towards all beings, non human and otherwise?

Single issue viewpoints or preferences towards one group ( in this case animals) limit our possibilities of true compassion and connection to all

Once again, please remove me from list.   

sent from my iPhone

On Apr 29, 2012, at 11:17 PM, Ramona <[address removed]> wrote:


Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch

-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: [vegetarian-515] Saturday Meeting
From: Jarlyn <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]

If I can remember correctly, this group is supposed to focus on vegan/ vegetarianism, as i was reminded so kindly via email a few months back by its host/administrators. Please post your opinions and comments about dogs somewhere else, maybe another meetup group.

Twila, any suggestions?


On Apr 28,[masked]:50 AM, "brad" <[address removed]> wrote:

From what i understand it is a predisposition to violence.
so the majority of the problem lies with the owner, though, they do have a genetic predisposition
To me, owners should be careful with ANY animal, though maybe a bit more with Pitts.

My dog is 1/2 Chow (and 1/2 dachshund), and i have to say she is very protective, she has never bitten anyone,
but she barks and at first would show her teeth when another dog was on my property.
It was not easy to get her out of that habit, and i assure you i give her nothing but love.
She has been with me 16 years now, and is still happy and healthy.
I have had many dogs, and there is a difference in the predisposition.

That said, the ATT has stats on all breeds here

ATTS Breed Statistics | American Temperament Test Society, Inc.

Breed Name                             Tested         Passed         Failed             Percent
American Pit Bull Terrier         839             728                111                 86.8%

Description of the Temperament Test


On 4/28/2012 8:57 AM, Len Trevino wrote:
In fact, pit bulls were originally bred to do bull baiting (when a dog grabs a bull by the nose and doesn't let go so that the person castrating a bull doesn't get gored. But then people turned it into a sport where the dog and bull would get into a pit and fight; that's where the name Pit Bull came from. But after that was outlawed they began breeding them to fight each other. Any human-aggressive pit bulls were immediately shot.

 They were especially bred not to be aggressive to humans, but can still have animal aggression. With proper training, socialization, and care they can be the most wonderful companions and family members.  So both sides of the issue are correct.  A pit bull is more likely to be aggressive toward other animals because they were bred to be so inclined.  However, with proper training and care, a pit bull or any dog can be a sweet and wonderful companion.  Kindness and compassion can he a wonderful antidote while abuse and animosity can have the opposite effect.


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On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Melissa Bastian <[address removed]> wrote:
I'm curious as to what legitimate source people are looking to to determine that pit bulls have been bred to be violent.  Is this something that people actually know as fact, or just something we hear and believe?

Of course this story is terrifying to the mothers in the room, and to any of us with any feeling.  But unless people feel the same way about rottweilers, German shepherds, and all the other dogs who have taken their turn being evil and vicious in the eyes of society merely because they are *capable* of being aggressive, then we may want to take a closer look at our beliefs and where they're coming from.

I'm going to suggest that the dog who actually broke away from its owner and ran down the street to attack an unknown child was acting remarkably for any dog breed, and that it is highly likely that that particular dog was not being raised appropriately.

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 7:04 AM, mary beth <[address removed]> wrote:
I have a pit bull who is a sweet dog. This is ridiculous!!!!  Please take me off this list. 

Mary Beth

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 27, 2012, at 11:03 PM, "Erin L." <[address removed]> wrote:

The problem is NOT simply one of "bad owners." Pit bull breeds were originally created for fighting purposes. Do we ever look at a greyhound with surprise when it runs fast? If you've ever been around border collies or other herding dogs, you know they herd even without training. It's in their genes. So it stands to reason that dogs bred for tenacity and aggression -- such as pit bulls -- will sometimes show those behaviors regardless of upbringing. Combine this fact with the mental instability that often results from inbreeding to create "pure bred" dogs, and voilà, you have children being mauled by pets that showed no previous signs of aggression.

Of course there are pit bulls that are sweet, but it is ridiculous to give one the benefit of the doubt around a child. Those that turn out to be vicious (surprise!) are simply too lethal. There have been enough stories for us to know better. Lyric was fortunate to get away with her life, and thank goodness there were adults around to save her. 

We have to get real about the nature of aggressive dog breeds. We can't simply raise them with kindness as an antidote to their genes. 

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Lynn <[address removed]> wrote:
I hope you'll also include something about not ALL pitbulls being

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